Where Is The Logic

[Lion Spirit Walker]

Where is the logic in the continued existance of this sadistic species called human beings???

[Logio]

Where is the logic in the continued existance of this sadistic species called human beings???

The synthetic rules of logic and purity can't always square with our actions...for we are fallible creatures....but not all things concerning human beings are sadistic or irrational.

Nathan

[SoulChild]

I don't understand this Pshyche....you are hurting me....I don't understand!

[Lion Spirit Walker]

Unfortunately, such logic does nothing to restore that which has been and continues to be done upon this planet at the hands of human beings. And are human beings not accountable for those acts???

[Narnia]

I don't think Psyche is intending to hurt you and or anyone, but rather he is expressing a very deep frustration with the mankind itself.

The trouble is - Humans as a whole have reached a point where 'we' are so consumed with ourselves, have become self-centered, apathic, and complacent 'we' can't see beyond the world that is in our heads - that mankind has actually limited itself from growing and allowing itself to learn openly without being 'afraid'. The human brain does start to shut down if complacency is the main ruler. Humans as a collective whole have not yet risen to our full potential - our real capablilities of being real, nice, sincere, and honest with each other on a day to day basis still has yet to be commonplace or of second nature.

'We', Humans are capable of so much love, joy, happiness, peace, beauty and goodness - but for some reason this seems to be easy to forget - put aside our selfishness and 'we' are a beautiful species.

There are so many hurdles for the Human innerself to get over - it is going to take a long time for the collective whole to be truly functional.

For those who understand no explanation is needed, but for those who do not understand no explanation is good enough.

But - to answer Psyche's question - what is the logic - it is balance - it is part of the pendulum's swing, which is indeed swinging back to a better balance.

[Logio]

Michael, I believe all actions will be accountable...but also that too much anger can be harmful to you. I know that it is difficult to put into perspective with your situation.

Let me tell you an old Zen story:



One day there was a man out for a leisurely afternoon on his sailboat. He is enjoying the day when he sees a boat on the horizon. He notices it is getting closer and closer. He also notices that it seems to be on a direct course to collide with his boat. He begins by waving, telling the other boat captain to “turn aside.” But it is no use, the boat continues on a direct course toward his boat. As the boat nears he starts yelling and waving and jumping up and down. All to no avail, because the boat finally rams his boat, damaging it. Now he is really angry, until he looks in the other boat and realizes there is no one on boat. It is a boat that has been adrift. There is no one to get angry with – no one to blame.

I believe this story is truer than we would like to believe...that there is a higher wisdom in an unseen realm of spirit...of course this may be outside the bounds of traditional logic, but to me, it is a higher understanding...

May you find this wisdom and peace, Michael.

Nathan

[Lion Spirit Walker]

Thank you very much Nathan.

[Logio]

Thank you very much Nathan.

Michael, the story was relayed to me by an elder woman, a psychologist! about twenty-five years ago, when I had some anger issues concerning my parents' divorce.

Nathan

[Lion Spirit Walker]

Your having shared it as you have is most sincerely appreciated my friend.
Tyvm.

[Rana]

.. and our souls are the puppets masters CO creators .. great one the frustration we feel ( and i feel it ..and i realise it with you) is guilt for the thoughts we thought in the times when we chose to ignore ..when we allow ego to rule ..when we chose to merge into the physical ..or be ignorant ..and as you know like when we put our coins in the jukebox in wait ..eventually it is programmed to play your chosen song .. but eventually that bad song you wished you never chose plays thru then is gone ..until the next person chooses it xx

[Lion Spirit Walker]

Through releasing, letting go of the chains that bind, a true sense of peace fills my very being. I am humbled in the heart of the Universe. And my heart is made full again with love, with compassion. And understanding returns, as my eyes can again see the bridge between mind and heart.
Even from the pain and sorrow, eternal, unconditional love and compassion grow.
It is our time to move mountains.
The key is between mind and heart.

[Logio]

The Universe seems cruel...but I think there is a reason for what it does...as angry as one may get with it...it is looking out for our best interest...that of a certain type of deep wisdom....will we learn? I think so...I sure have had my insights...I am sure there will be more for me.

[Kiran]

Hmm...I don't think that the Universe is responsible for the actions of people....people have to take that responsibility as we all do.
I too feel the frustration as we all do...I feel the pain of those who cry out as many of us do.
We have to remain balanced....listen with our hearts and our heads - not the other way around. If we only live in our heads, we lost that compassion, that thing that makes us human and able to empathise, to love and care.
If we only follow our hearts, we lose the capacity to think through what we can do, what actions we can take without giving way completely to anger, hatred, love. Balance is the Universal way....it is us humans that lose the balance.

[BlueStar]

When the parts are viewed independently they are seen as imperfect. When all is viewed as a whole, there is a balance and perfection that the mind simply can't fathom.

I've spent much time musing death recently. In fact it deserves its own thread. Even sometimes still it strikes me as cruel and awful, but then without death life couldn't continue. Life keeps reproducing and without the necessity of birth's opposite, death, the consequences would be unimaginable. And would we all really want to live in eternal senility, forever entrapped in flesh and bones? Not me.

There is a greater order. Even the seeming tragedies of life are part of a perfect whole.

[Jester Black]

my mother used to say

"there are those that suffer...and there are those that do not. but ALL are given reasons for suffering".

Ive always found great and profound wisdom in those words.

[BlueStar]

I like that Jay, and so true. It reminds me of that quote "pain is inevitable, suffering is optional."

[Lion Spirit Walker]

Forgive me Jay and Rory, as I do not wish to discount your truthful statements. I simply wish to state that there are in fact two sides to that coin.
There is in fact very legitimate suffering that cannot and should not be dismissed.
There is always the Yin to the Yeng.

[Lion Spirit Walker]

Over the past several hours I've given deep consideration to the three preceeding post. And to be honest, it's stuck with me like a thorn.
First, I wish to request some further thought with regard to suffering as stated above. As the posts currently read, they're wide open for misunderstanding. So please humor me for the sake of clarity.
My mind perceives suffering as enduring a hardship.
Obviously, this can apply to a countless number of circumstances.

[BlueStar]

I understand Michael, I will try to elaborate. I have a different definition of suffering. I can understand the misunderstanding (that sounds funny!). Obviously I do not deny the fact there is so much pain and hardship in life and that so many people suffer deeply in their lives. But I think we are thinking of different things when we use the word 'suffering'.

I like to differentiate between pain and suffering. Pain is a physical and/or emotional experience and is an inevitability in life. Suffering, to me, implies the addition of a mind-story that is lumped on top of the pain and which generates a whole lot more mental/emotional pain. For instance, I have been experiencing a fair amount of physical and emotional pain the past week for reasons which I need not go into. It's not fun and not nice, but in order for it to go beyond mere experience and become 'suffering', I would need to add past and future to it (which never exist outside the mind) and wrap it in a story or stories such as 'I shouldn't be feeling like this', 'it's not fair', 'it's unacceptable', 'life never treats me well'. When I slip into that mode, I fall into suffering and it's largely mind-created beyond the obvious and not-nice physical/emotional discomfort. So, for me: pain+story=suffering. Without the story, it's just pain, it's physical sensation and it just has to be accepted as the experience I'm having right now.

I learned the hard way the wisdom of surrender as a spiritual practise. Surrendering actually takes a lot more strength and guts than resisting. The tree that resists the wind snaps while the tree that yields and bends into the wind survives intact. When we surrender to the seemingly unacceptable, to the hardships and pain and don't spin all kinds of horror stories about them in our mind, it just becomes easier. Sometimes it even transmutes some of the pain.

I hope that makes some sense. It's funny, I sometimes feel like a black sheep around MW. I approach things from a different perspective to many and I rarely accept the commonly accepted definitions. I guess it makes things interesting but I do understand it can also cause misunderstandings and rub people up the wrong way. I try to explain myself as best I can and have endeavoured not to speak of things that I haven't found to be true in my own personal experience. The internet is not my preferred method of communication to be honest. Misunderstandings arise too easily and whereas they can be reconciled in mere seconds when engaging in first-hand communication, here it can take a lot of energy to iron them out.

[BlueStar]

I just realised that my equation maybe sounded ridiculously simple, when in fact going beyond suffering is no easy thing and it's the nature of mind to spin stories to categorise and process our experiences. It's also true that many if not most of these stories are destructive and unnecessary. Going beyond them is a key to liberation, I am convinced of this.