The Great Secret In Being

[Lion Spirit Walker]

Humans by nature of Being have a very real aspect rarely spoken of 'out loud'. This aspect is considered fact by science and world governments. And still, it remains a great silent secret to society.
I understand why the various sciences and world governments actively choose to maintain silence with regard to this aspect of which I speak. But, I as of yet have not found an adequate reason for societies ignorance to the very real aspect of our being.
I use this term loosely as it is not wholey accurate. I am reffering to human ESP.
As with so many other aspects of our being, without regular active use this aspect atrophies to the point of being numb.
The good thing is that it is not lost albeit forgotten. With active engagement it will resurface. And the various fascets of it can be strengthened.
This is a very real part of our being, with which we can truly do wonderous things.
So shall we talk of this? Or shall it be swept aside to remain the great secret in being?

[Logio]

Humans by nature of Being have a very real aspect rarely spoken of 'out loud'. This aspect is considered fact by science and world governments. And still, it remains a great silent secret to society.
I understand why the various sciences and world governments actively choose to maintain silence with regard to this aspect of which I speak. But, I as of yet have not found an adequate reason for societies ignorance to the very real aspect of our being.
I use this term loosely as it is not wholey accurate. I am reffering to human ESP.
As with so many other aspects of our being, without regular active use this aspect atrophies to the point of being numb.
The good thing is that it is not lost albeit forgotten. With active engagement it will resurface. And the various fascets of it can be strengthened.
This is a very real part of our being, with which we can truly do wonderous things.
So shall we talk of this? Or shall it be swept aside to remain the great secret in being?

I hear you, Michael, but this does not truly fall within the realms of science - not that it doesn't have a place somewhere within spiritual discourse...but it seems hardly fair to expect science to encompass something that cannot be tested with precision. Science will accept it with open arms when that happens. Until then, it must be left within the realms of metaphysics. Governments cannot have a dialogue until or when this happens...for to do so, would enforce something which has a precarious foundation.

Respectfully,

Nathan

[Kiran]

Hmm...I see both your points of view here but Logio...how many things have science accepted without necessarily having them fully proved?
How many things are called...'syndromes' as they cannot explain the reason for a particular function of a dis-ease etc?
The brain is the last great frontier to explore and due to its nature of people needing them to function, can be very hard to map and yet they have done this process to some extent...but if its the greatest computer and it is widely accepted that approximately (and being generous here) that only 30-40% is being used...what is the rest for?
I think sometimes, science will forego its imperical proof in favour of what is generally accepted.
Good thought provoking thread....
HUGS

[Narnia]

The young and fast growing scientific field of Neotic is attempting to acquire proof and evidence that elements related to Human Beings such as ESP, astral projection, the Human conscience, etc., are indeed real and tangible to a degree.


Institute of Neotic Sciences

[BlueStar]

From what I understand, there have been extensive studies into human ESP...and many studies have proven massively beyond the realms of chance that it does exist. However, it is unreliable and many studies have found that although it is definitely there, it can be hit and miss...ie, sometimes the subjects totally hit the mark, but often they miss it just as much. This could be because many/most people have not got a finely tuned ESP, and maybe the methodology of the studies makes it hard to 'capture' this essence.

I read about lots of fascinating studies in a book called "The Field" by Lynne McTaggart, a fascinating book well worth reading.

[Logio]

Hmm...I see both your points of view here but Logio...how many things have science accepted without necessarily having them fully proved?
How many things are called...'syndromes' as they cannot explain the reason for a particular function of a dis-ease etc?
The brain is the last great frontier to explore and due to its nature of people needing them to function, can be very hard to map and yet they have done this process to some extent...but if its the greatest computer and it is widely accepted that approximately (and being generous here) that only 30-40% is being used...what is the rest for?
I think sometimes, science will forego its imperical proof in favour of what is generally accepted.
Good thought provoking thread....
HUGS

Lorri, it comes down to workability: science accepts the recurring and events with less than a chance effect...even though it is not always be able to explain them. ESP represents a hit or miss that cannot be authenticated.
In the case of the brain, we know it's here and that there are many functions that can be accounted for. The idea of ESP is quite the reverse; no one has been able to replicate data in the laboratory to consider it reliable.

The evidence cited for ESP is usually anecdotal. Sometimes it is claimed, however, that scientific tests at respected research institutions have conclusively demonstrated that ESP exists; or government tests have proved it; or, that the Russians are "working hard" on it, etc. Sometimes proponents cite specific experiments as having confirmed the existence of ESP. In fact, it is the essentially unanimous opinion of psychologists that the existence of ESP has not been shown. All procedurally valid and reproducible experiments have failed to demonstrate the existence of ESP. (See Hansel, Alcock, Marks and Kammann, and Druckman and Swets for detailed reviews of the best-known experiments.) We will first consider why the existence of ESP is such an extraordinary claim, given the current state of our knowledge about the world, and then review the major experiments claimed to support the existence of ESP.

http://www.ntskeptics.org/factsheets/esp.htm

Respectfully,

Nathan

[Lion Spirit Walker]

I would not have stated what I did as I did if I didn't have first hand knowledge of it being fact.
I am not one to loosely use the word "fact".
To quote a source I will not name, "We know these abilities exist. We've known for some time now. They are very real. For some reason unknown to us, we are seeing more and more people with enhanced abilities such as yourself. We cannot stop it."
"More and more scientific discoveries are resulting from intuitive thought than are occurring as a result of rational thought. And it is the greater discoveries that are coming from this intuitive thought process."
We all have freedom of choice with regard to this that I speak of.
I choose to live Life as an Aware Human Being, fully capable and awake.

[Logio]

I would not have stated what I did as I did if I didn't have first hand knowledge of it being fact.
I am not one to loosely use the word "fact".
To quote a source I will not name, "We know these abilities exist. We've known for some time now. They are very real. For some reason unknown to us, we are seeing more and more people with enhanced abilities such as yourself. We cannot stop it."
"More and more scientific discoveries are resulting from intuitive thought than are occurring as a result of rational thought. And it is the greater discoveries that are coming from this intuitive thought process."
We all have freedom of choice with regard to this that I speak of.
I choose to live Life as an Aware Human Being, fully capable and awake.

Okay, Michael.

[Lion Spirit Walker]

I understand...
And know I will no longer express myself openly.
A fool I am not.

[Lion Spirit Walker]

Exsisto vestri neque nec stultus.

Translation; "Be yourself and not a fool"
From "Push the Limits" by Enigma

[brother]

Just for fun...

It took me about 15min to put this together... I'm sure if I put my mind to it I could come up with some really good stuff LOL

http://www.synchronizeduniverse.com/...PARANORMAL.htm

Fred Alan Wolf , Quantum physicist
Dr. John Hagelin, Quantum physicist

Dennis Waitley Psycologist
Ben Johnson, Physician

The Science Behind Empathy
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4313263/...ience-science/

The Neuroscience of Empathy, a 2003 review article by Drs Jean Decety and Philip Jackson

These are just some places to start looking if you are curious as to what main stream science has to say about some of our more interesting abilities.

If I remember right its quarks that they have found have a very interesting dynamic when they run tests on them to see how they behave. What's so interesting is that the quarks behaved according to the tests run on them. If they were to test to see if they would move a specific direction, they did while other tests designed to see if it would do the opposite under the same conditions showed it indeed would. The scientists concluded that this goofy little particle would do what ever you intended it to do somehow

Another nifty little expiriment was with a particle of matter that when split each particle would copy the other one automatically pointing to the idea that even though they were physically seperated they still had a link.

Any way... thought some of you might have some fun...

Cheers,
Brother

[MystEerieUsOne]

Psyche...

The hardest part of dealing with *higher Consciousness,* with becoming more highly evolved, is learning NOT to look for permission or validation from convention, and "science" is the God of convention right now. Everything it does, it does in a linear, and hence, delayed, manner...measuring ONLY the linear AFTERmath.

The universe, however, is NONlinear.

(Finding the linear answer and then inverting it is NOT the same thing as *genuinely realizing nonlinearity!*

Sure, what science does APPEARS accurate and impressive, BUT...that's because it is appeasing convention, in the very same manner that anybody who behaves, along with all others around, in a conventional manner is going to appear to accurately fit right in.

So, what science is doing is *looking compliantly good,* no matter how wrong it is in the process of doing that.

To find "proof" of something, they first have to actually know how to accurately define the problem! That isn't happening.

Again and again, I have watched scientists and academic researchers looking for something in all the wrong places, wasting billions in research monies conducting experiments that are so far off the mark it isn't funny. Majorly not funny, given where else all that wasted money and time could be going otherwise! But why wouldn't they?! They are NOT Conscious, they have no clue about the REAL reality, they are feeling their way around in the dark, wearing blinders all the while, and they don't even hear themselves when they talk. They're like little kids at Christmas, in awe of all the pretty lights and festivities, all the while adamantly claiming they have no belief whatsoever in...well, Christmas! It is quite an enigma watching what the world considers the most brilliant-minded scientists and researchers on the planet presenting themselves from a place of unbelievable UNconsciousness. They genuinely have no clue!

So, when you are looking for validation from them, or from anyone who believes in them, who also doesn't *get* that the universe is nonlinear, that science is blindly stumbling its way toward Consciousness having not a clue in heck that that is what is happening, you are just setting your own self up for rejection.

Been there, done that...but unfortunately for me, when they don't listen, thousands of very real people die! Hundreds of thousands!

Believe in yourself, in your own realizations, and allow yourself to accept that despite your own awarenesses, an additional awareness, and perhaps the hardest of all, is in having to *accept* that if you are lightyears ahead of the ability of the masses, of convention, and they have a long way to go, in no way does that begin to translate as yourself being wrong!

Genius resides in one's own ability to recognize what and where that is! If you remove the i, you have its origin...genus, and that genus has to *originate* from within.

All throughout the ages there have been people who saw through their current world's mentality, and many suffered horribly for it, many even losing their lives, branded as traitors, heretics, witches and demons and the like. It is tremendously shocking, to say the least, to realize yourself as far more highly evolved than the current status of some of the most brilliant, scientific minds, but you lose some of that the moment you allow yourself to accept the sleepers as the true authorities, seeing yourself as "less than."

You must awaken to the reality that the authority on genius, on Awakening, is NOT CONVENTION, and NOT SCIENCE!

It is, for myself, the most painful realization of all, the most devastating *knowing,* that I find myself on a planet, an entire planet, and the only planet I have to live my life on, at a time when universal truth doesn't matter, where it has no place to "matter," to manifest, unless it is behind the walls of a monastery, or hidden in the offices of a professor who knows only too well that speaking up will cost him/her their tenure, profession, reputation and career.

The reality is that this is an era that is outer-directed, field-dependent, the blind looking to the blind for answers, and it continues that anyone genuinely having the Answers are perceived as a threat, because free will and the determination not to be determined persist, and they'd rather have the chaos of the fallen journey than the order of the truth, if in any way it appears or feels like somebody else has redirected them. It's a very sad and frustrating situation, but unfortunately it is also the ugly side of the two truths. Convention wants to play its way through life. It is allergic to the truth. The physics of reality itself supports their continued sleep, because moving toward the truth *feels like death,* and moving away from it *feels like life.* Little do they know that the Nothing has nothing to do with nothing.

All over the world, every living being is desperately, albeit totally unwittingly, searching for the truth, because it is inescapable human physics that we are moved and motivated toward balance, toward the Core that underlies and essentially *causes* every everything in the universe. There is no escaping that motivation, but there is also the innate fear, however mistakenly defined, that any movement toward The Nothing, toward the inverse, means loss and death. It isn't, but explaining that complexity to those unable and unready to handle complexity is quite a daunting task. There's just such instant and easy advocacy in their maintaining their comfort zone, no matter how wrong and misguided it may be.

Trust your own heart, know what you know, accept the reality, hard as it absolutely is, that science (despite all its often impressive advances in its movements toward life/Existence) is *not ready* for anyone to tell them how wrong they are in the lack of an equal movement to the inverse and beyond. They've assumed an authority that is only earned by the sleeping linear convention!

As with religion, moving too far to the West cannot help but ultimately wind people up in the East, and moving too far to the East cannot help but ultimately wind people up in the West, and science's moving too far toward Existence is little by little proving to them that they have not yet learned to turn around and realize the reflection. They genuinely are learning their own Awakening little by little, but using other labels to do that, naively denying the validity of Consciousness/Enlightenment, in its truest form, along the way. Everything they have projected out, that looks so impressive to the world, like branes and string theory and the like, truly ARE their spelling out to the whole world that the ultimate Answer IS Consciousness, but they are only up to about the Consc... and they are working on...iou!

They're not going to see it until they are ready to see it. They didn't see it before 9/11 NY, before 4/19 OK, before massive earthquakes in Mexico City, Kobe, Japan, etc., or before the tsunami that killed hundreds of thousands, and countless others, and they even slept through their very own space shuttles' demise!

They're *not ready.* Don't take that as YOU not being ready, though! So, don't back down! Convention wins the moment truth allows itself to lose!

What you suggest is absolutely teachable, absolutely measurable, just as precognition absolutely is, and telepathy (something else I have personally experienced and can teach and measure and explain), but science will never *get it* devoting millions to looking for answers to questions they have no clue how to first accurately ask!

It's their inability to accurately *ask* that causes science, in all its convention, to unwittingly invalidate itself.

[Logio]

Psyche...

The hardest part of dealing with *higher Consciousness,* with becoming more highly evolved, is learning NOT to look for permission or validation from convention, and "science" is the God of convention right now. Everything it does, it does in a linear, and hence, delayed, manner...measuring ONLY the linear AFTERmath.

The universe, however, is NONlinear.

Nonlinear problems are of interest to physicists and mathematicians because most physical systems are inherently nonlinear in nature. Nonlinear equations are difficult to solve and give rise to interesting phenomena such as chaos. The weather is famously nonlinear, where simple changes in one part of the system produce complex effects throughout.

(Finding the linear answer and then inverting it is NOT the same thing as *genuinely realizing nonlinearity!*

Science proposes theories based upon mathematical possibilities within frameworks of commonly known objective physical realities; these hypotheses and theories define possibilities only.

Sure, what science does APPEARS accurate and impressive, BUT...that's because it is appeasing convention, in the very same manner that anybody who behaves, along with all others around, in a conventional manner is going to appear to accurately fit right in.

So, what science is doing is *looking compliantly good,* no matter how wrong it is in the process of doing that.

Science posits theories that never claim to be either "right" or "wrong", but that satisfy data from objective sources. To say "no matter how wrong" implies that there is a known falsity in which scientists are conspire to keep hidden from the populace. This does not fall within the rubric of science, because if something is known to be false, it would be disregarded forthwith.

To find "proof" of something, they first have to actually know how to accurately define the problem! That isn't happening.

Science makes its definitions based upon objective sources...and although it is true that science cannot always accurately define a source for proof, it doesn't assume to reach finality on all subject matter.

Again and again, I have watched scientists and academic researchers looking for something in all the wrong places, wasting billions in research monies conducting experiments that are so far off the mark it isn't funny. Majorly not funny, given where else all that wasted money and time could be going otherwise! But why wouldn't they?! They are NOT Conscious, they have no clue about the REAL reality, they are feeling their way around in the dark, wearing blinders all the while, and they don't even hear themselves when they talk. They're like little kids at Christmas, in awe of all the pretty lights and festivities, all the while adamantly claiming they have no belief whatsoever in...well, Christmas! It is quite an enigma watching what the world considers the most brilliant-minded scientists and researchers on the planet presenting themselves from a place of unbelievable UNconsciousness. They genuinely have no clue!

This is classified as a hasty conclusion based upon an irrelevant topic presented in order to divert attention from the original issue...namely that science should be abandoned because it is assumed that millions of dollars are being spent, when a lot of dollars have been spent on science in improving humanity.

So, when you are looking for validation from them, or from anyone who believes in them, who also doesn't *get* that the universe is nonlinear, that science is blindly stumbling its way toward Consciousness having not a clue in heck that that is what is happening, you are just setting your own self up for rejection.

Your point is a moot one - science does accept that the universe is non-linear thing - in fact, much has been written concerning this e.g. String Theory. So, your prior state a false conclusion based upon untenable assumptions.

Been there, done that...but unfortunately for me, when they don't listen, thousands of very real people die! Hundreds of thousands!

This statement is a bit unclear...it seems that you imply that science and not technology is doing the killing.

Although different from each other, Science and Technology go hand-in-hand, and in this particular explanation, Science is the egg, and Technology is the Chicken if you believe that the egg came first. I can't tell you where the egg came from, other than the fact that Creation and Evolution seem to be intertwined. Science can broadly be defined as the study of "things" such as: Chemistry, Biology, Physics, Genetics, Geology, Psychology, Sociology, and other fields of study that analyze interactions, behaviors, physical properties, effects, causes, etc. in order to rationalize or establish given properties, behaviors and interactions about such "things". In Science class, the basis of Science is the conducting of experiments. Basically, a theory is made (stated), analysis and testing are performed with the use of various controls, and when a specific, measurable result occurs, and can be reproduced or proven time and time again, the theory then becomes Scientific law, or a truism of sorts (I am trying to be general in order to represent all the fields).

Technology, refers generally to items of use, created from "Applied Science". A good example of this is the production of Solar panels. Solar Panels are used in a variety of different technologies, but the simplest example is a Solar Powered Calculator. It was proposed long ago that the Sun emits 2 types of energy, heat energy and light energy. The Sun's heat energy is what warms the Earth's atmosphere so that life as we know it can exist, by warming the atmosphere to a tolerable temperature that the Human Body can function in. (Space is somewhere around -230 degrees Farenheit, and at those temperatures, plants could not grow, and the Human body would not be able to carry on normal functions such as breathing in that cold of temperature.) The sun's light energy is absorbed by Solar Panels (and Solar Cells), and converts that energy to electricity so that the calculator can perform mathematical functions. To test this, put a piece of electrical tape over the solar panel on a solar calculator for 15 minutes, and then see if you can turn it on. If you can't then you know the light energy is being converted to electricity.

In brief: Science is the study of forces and interactions between different "things", both animate and inanimate. Technology can be referred to as things which we make, but were developed by applying Scientific law, knowing what such "things" are capable of doing.

Believe in yourself, in your own realizations, and allow yourself to accept that despite your own awarenesses, an additional awareness, and perhaps the hardest of all, is in having to *accept* that if you are lightyears ahead of the ability of the masses, of convention, and they have a long way to go, in no way does that begin to translate as yourself being wrong!

Genius resides in one's own ability to recognize what and where that is! If you remove the i, you have its origin...genus, and that genus has to *originate* from within.

Agreed, but science is a part of this process.

All throughout the ages there have been people who saw through their current world's mentality, and many suffered horribly for it, many even losing their lives, branded as traitors, heretics, witches and demons and the like. It is tremendously shocking, to say the least, to realize yourself as far more highly evolved than the current status of some of the most brilliant, scientific minds, but you lose some of that the moment you allow yourself to accept the sleepers as the true authorities, seeing yourself as "less than."

"The current world's mentality" was the mentality before the Age of Enlightenment, when superstition was prevalent in the world...that is what caused the deaths of which you so ably speak.

You must awaken to the reality that the authority on genius, on Awakening, is NOT CONVENTION, and NOT SCIENCE!

Science has conventions that haven't been proven false, and is open to new ways of thinking if they can be justified by facts.
[QUOTE=MystEerieUsOne;12875]
It is, for myself, the most painful realization of all, the most devastating *knowing,* that I find myself on a planet, an entire planet, and the only planet I have to live my life on, at a time when universal truth doesn't matter, where it has no place to "matter," to manifest, unless it is behind the walls of a monastery, or hidden in the offices of a professor who knows only too well that speaking up will cost him/her their tenure, profession, reputation and career.

The idea of universal truth is quite vague...please elaborate using facts.

The reality is that this is an era that is outer-directed, field-dependent, the blind looking to the blind for answers, and it continues that anyone genuinely having the Answers are perceived as a threat, because free will and the determination not to be determined persist, and they'd rather have the chaos of the fallen journey than the order of the truth, if in any way it appears or feels like somebody else has redirected them. It's a very sad and frustrating situation, but unfortunately it is also the ugly side of the two truths. Convention wants to play its way through life. It is allergic to the truth. The physics of reality itself supports their continued sleep, because moving toward the truth *feels like death,* and moving away from it *feels like life.* Little do they know that the Nothing has nothing to do with nothing.

This is a rather subjective statement...the convention of science does not control the way you have to think, it is only a record of facts and theories based upon objective findings.

All over the world, every living being is desperately, albeit totally unwittingly, searching for the truth, because it is inescapable human physics that we are moved and motivated toward balance, toward the Core that underlies and essentially *causes* every everything in the universe. There is no escaping that motivation, but there is also the innate fear, however mistakenly defined, that any movement toward The Nothing, toward the inverse, means loss and death. It isn't, but explaining that complexity to those unable and unready to handle complexity is quite a daunting task. There's just such instant and easy advocacy in their maintaining their comfort zone, no matter how wrong and misguided it may be.

Science does not dictate our happiness or unhappiness, this is topic for metaphysics.

Trust your own heart, know what you know, accept the reality, hard as it absolutely is, that science (despite all its often impressive advances in its movements toward life/Existence) is *not ready* for anyone to tell them how wrong they are in the lack of an equal movement to the inverse and beyond. They've assumed an authority that is only earned by the sleeping linear convention!

Science is not written in stone, nor does it necessarily assume convention...this would not be true science. Concepts such as moving toward a higher spirituality should remain within the realm of metaphysics.

Respectfully,

Nathan

[Lion Spirit Walker]

Thank you so very much Myst...

[MystEerieUsOne]

Nathan,

Everything you are about to read, if you read, will help you understand the REALITY of ESP.

Put the WTC buildings back up, unjump all those precious moms and dads, husbands and wives, sons and daughters from their 100+ floor deaths, recongeal those airplanes and bring all their precious passengers back to life, untraumatize the world from that event and many similar, show me all those precious babies from Oklahoma's Federal Building still living their lives today, having grown up and in school, still bringing their families such joy! Bring back the Oklahoma Federal Building, undo the other nightmares such as the attacks on subways and buses, the navy ship, the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, Africa... Unkidnap children, bring them all back to life, undo the earthquakes that killed thousands that never had to die, undo the tsunami and bring back to life the hundreds of thousands killed in just that one, and on and on and on...

Great work, geology! Great job, criminal science! NASA? You screwed up, too!

You get my drift. I *knew* and science didn't. Neither did governments, because they believe in their science gods and trust them to tell them how and what to think, like...oh, punishing an independent scientist in Italy months ago who tried to warn of the earthquake that was imminent. "Nobody can predict earthquakes!," they claimed.

To hell they can't! I can, I've done it many times, with deadly accuracy, among thousands of other realizations manifested, and I'm not a nobody, well, except to them! They've hung up on me enough, not answered my emails, and thrown me away enough for me to get that idea!

Undo the science books that persist in telling the world that Consciousness is mythology, that precognition is impossible (risking millions of lives with such nonsense!), and bring back those space shuttles and all those astronauts who died in them!

Can you do that? Can science? No!

They couldn't even protect their own immediate interests!

I was thousands of miles away from all of these events and I *knew* about them, in incredible detail, in plenty enough time to change history. They were never interested!

Where do you think governments get their information from? Scientists! I have been thrown off of geology boards trying to warn of devastations that were imminent, laughed off of science boards trying to protect cities full of people, hung up on by authorities...one of them, ironically, was killed in the WTC buildings! Bet he wished he had listened to me two years earlier...and again and again and again...until it was too late! Bet he listened to science instead!

I *knew* about all of those in advance, using not one iota of mythology, not one iota of metaphysics, and MY math is SO ACCURATE they all actually manifested...WHILE your scientists sat on the information!

How do I know for sure that they sat on the information?

Because I am the one who gave it to them in the first place!

They did NOTHING! Obviously!

They are clueless, and totally irresponsible telling the whole world that truth is subjective and that Consciousness is myth, and worst of all, that precognition is impossible.

They COULD COST ENTIRE CITIES FULL OF PEOPLE THEIR LIVES!

Now, is this changing the subject of this thread. Absolutely not!

It is all connected! Extrasensory perception... Where do think that comes from? Make believe? Again, it has nothing whatsoever to do with myth or meta anything! It is totally reality based!

When you are genuinely Conscious, you realize a physics so much higher than most people have a clue even exists. You access other dimensions and you see how it all is interwoven, how it all connects, and where it connects. The patterns are persistent, and not because you invented them that way. They really do exist!

And they exist in real time, but time is relative, right? As if scientists don't have enough trouble figuring that one out, they also seem to have a horrible time being able to process relative simultaneity! If something doesn't immediately manifest, they insist it's wrong, "impossible," and myth!

They are using the wrong conditions to measure reality!

There's just such an enormity of information and data that arise from Consciousness that there is no way until you are there you are ever going to begin to fathom even the tiniest amount of it. I could talk and talk and talk until you know what freezes over and you would insist I am wrong, so...I didn't invent the physics underlying the universe. I can't be responsible for its "plan" for you to have to do your own work, to figure it all out for yourself.

It exists that way because you wove your own web to get distracted from it in the first place, and with the Answer at the end of your own unweaving and undistraction, you and your scientists really do have to do your own work! THAT is reality! Expecting ME to present you with it when you haven't earned it is what is impossible!

But in keeping with everything I have said here, extrasensory perception is just one of many seeming-to-science and convention phenomena perceived as impossible myth and make believe. When you are looking in all the wrong places, of course you are not going to see it, let alone experience it (except for a possible occasional pinpoint alignment that winds up dismissed, most likely).

I mean, talk about looking in all the wrong places! ESP is not something that is ever going to be accurately measured in a fake or contrived environment! The reason for that is because the physics underlying it is physics that requires certain conditions of energy alignment that involve an enormous amount of placement elsewhere leading up to it! This is really hard to explain if you are not multidimensionally aware. Let me see if I can explain what I mean:

Some people ask the question: If someone who has a premonition reveals the premonition to anyone else, does that then alter the *conditions* such that the premonition will not occur?

Science would quickly rush to conclude that that is being used as an excuse to cover up the impossibility of precognition, and just their saying that would show to anyone Conscious enough to see through them that their science just went out the window, if they can't *get* that stuff happens because ALL the conditions are in place for that stuff to happen.

Now, having said that, the answer is...NO! Simply making a simple statement to someone about it doesn't stop the event, because there are millions of energies leading it toward manifestation and there would need to be a much more invasive intervention for that change to occur, like...actual action, for instance!

When I am detecting an imminent earthquake, for instance, I am aware of physics that connect with it that are so far away from what most others, and very definitely most scientists, even know are related to it, or that exist in the universe at all. Earthquakes don't begin in the ground! I can see layers upon layers of preconditions forming, months in advance, and how they actually "tell on" their own target, meaning location, date, even how many will die in it! I can hear the language that will be used to define and discuss the earthquake and its aftermath months, weeks, days before the event manifests. Actual names of players appear, of the city or state or country, and the mathematics of it, such as its intensity, date, number effected or killed, its all there, long before it happens. Why? Because when you don't limit yourself to human labels or perceptions based on conventional expectation, you hear and see higher realities of life, higher definitions of life's many happenings. Geophysicists are still looking in the ground for earthquake data when they should be looking in their own mirrors!

Scientists haven't figured that all out yet! Because THEY are not that Conscious yet, to them it doesn't exist. But does it actually exist? Absolutely, it does!

Now, back to ESP... Let's make ESP an earthquake. You, the scientist, sit me down in a lab and say...predict an earthquake on the spot! I say I can't! You say...Aha! See! You can't, because it is IMPOSSIBLE!

I say, you're dead wrong! Why? Because there are 808087198641650123079867916086671029620742346237680237407 things going on in the universe all at one time, and I can't be everywhere at once! My mind is on other stuff happening at the time! Wanna know about the man at the convenience store down the street from you who is going to be shot dead by robbers on the 25th of the month? Wanna know the robbers' actual names, how many there will be, and whether they get any loot in the process?

Of course you don't! You want what you want when you want it, and life just doesn't happen that way! It is not a magic act!

It is actual physics! Now, I could completely undo everything else I had on my plate at the time, undistract myself and actually go looking for the information, and then I could probably bring you your earthquake, possibly. If I haven't observed the data leading up to it with any attention toward it, I could otherwise be as clueless as anyone else who won't know about it because they were distracted. BUT!!!! Precisely because of my superConsciousness, IF I really wanted to, I absolutely could! Why and how? Because I know precisely where and how to look for it!

Science could not, because it is looking in all the wrong places, beginning with..."it's impossible!"

My point is...

Science persists on dismissing reality just because they also persist in controlling experiments and conditions for those experiments that have nothing whatsoever to do with the required conditions of what they are measuring.

Another example: You get the physics of the water in an empty fish tank. Does it stay forever that way? NO! The moment you breathe on that water, the whole thing is all wrong, and you have to measure the physics of it all over again...and don't breathe, because then once again the current measurement has changed.

Conditions required to measure ESP must include the actual physics requirements of the phenomena of extrasensory perception itself, and not be expected to fit into the conventional expectations of scientists and researchers who have no clue where or how to look or measure the reality of its reality!

Telepathy! How? Well, if you sat two strangers down in front of each other and said...show me proof of telepathy, you'd likely not get it. Does that prove the non-existence of telepathy? No, it proves the scientist didn't have a clue about the conditions needed to produce genuine telepathy!

Sit ME down in front of someone I have found who is as fluent in superConsciousness and nonlinear mathematical truth as I am, and...well, that already happened! Without a word, again and again, we darned near disappeared off the planet together, we were so fluently in tune with each other! Why? Because genuine telepathy is the alignment of shared Conscious energies! We are all like transmitters and receivers, and if you are on the same channel, wow! MAJOR WOW! Telepathy is one of the most extraordinary and insightful experiences of my life! (It produces a genuine wormhole!)

My overall point is... IF scientists were fluently superConscious, they would know where to look for their answers, instead of wasting time looking in all the wrong places, conjuring up artificial conditions to measure something that can never be successfully measured under those conditions!

How would a cat react to a particular environment? Well, let's put a dog in there to look for the answer! THAT is what science is doing when it is not Conscious first. It hasn't a clue! On so many advanced realities and multiple dimensions of truth, it hasn't a clue!

Now, keep in mind that there is the science of Los Alamos and Area 51 (now moved), and then there is the science of the rest of the world, the science made public...and that determines what governments are going to believe when it comes to being responsible for millions of lives every day. Do the hidden ones know? Of course they do! But they rarely ever cross paths, because they are too invested in what they do to allow the science of everyday survival to risk what they do. How do I know? Because WHEN AND WHERE IT COUNTS, when and where millions of people rely on science and government for basic everyday survival, they fail miserably!

Like I said, bring back all those buildings, planes, people, undo the tsunami nightmare, and all the others, and then you can claim they do. The reality is...they didn't. They don't know how to put it all together and bring it back to the real world. If they did, they'd find answers to advanced questions they don't even know how to ask as yet! Including to extrasensory perception (ESP), telepathy and the like!

By the way, Sept 11th 2001 went without intervention because, quote: "We don't employ that technology!"

Obviously!

[MystEerieUsOne]

Psyche...

"Welcome!"

[Logio]

MystEerieUsOne, none of your claims can be proven and are quite fantastical. Your "reality" was not recorded before the disasters you claimed to predict. Many may claim ESP after the fact; this doesn't make it authenticatable.
Science understand its limitations, and Governments do not employ science to circumvent disasters such as the WTC disaster; Science does not claim to predict earthquakes with accuracy...you have science confused with something else, my friend.

Respectfully,

Nathan

[Kiran]

Just a note for everyone...now this thread has been moved to another forum as requested, all points of view may be expressed here no matter what it is based on.

[brother]

where angels fear to tread...

This has stepped out of friendly debate and into personal, emotional issues. What is the real motivation? To share your love and understanding with others some times we have to first really listen with our hearts open. Sometimes its in our most heated arguments we can find the gift of healing. One of my biggest personal issues is sharing what I believe openly, sharing my love openly and then feeling as though its being rejected. It's a big button... isnt that what's happening here?

(((((((((((hugs))))))))))))) to you all
brother

[Kiran]

where angels fear to tread...

This has stepped out of friendly debate and into personal, emotional issues. What is the real motivation? To share your love and understanding with others some times we have to first really listen with our hearts open. Sometimes its in our most heated arguments we can find the gift of healing. One of my biggest personal issues is sharing what I believe openly, sharing my love openly and then feeling as though its being rejected. It's a big button... isnt that what's happening here?

(((((((((((hugs))))))))))))) to you all
brother

Thank you for your wisdom here and gentle words...much appreciated.