Defining mental illness

[Rana]

I am always being asked throughout my life "Are You religeous ? " . My response that for means of explanation by words "I am spiritual ,i do not follow an organised religeon " always sparks much curiosity and debate. one response came and still does come from a good friend of mine who lives with clinical depression (and this is after we have known each other for 10 years .she is a practicing Italian Catholic ) will say "so you are a Christian right ? " ahhh no. but thats ok i respect her and for all she has been thru and goes through with reguards to the negative side of her depression her spiritual beliefs are really good and supportive and im all for that.
She raised an interesting thing up to me based on something she had been thinking about from her support group for people living with mental illness . She asked me if spiritual people are able to communicate with her words "the dead" and hear them speak and even see them,do i think people living with Schizophrenia are speaking to "the dead" and seeing ghosts. this made me begin to think that this is something that needs to addressed and clarified.
There is no denying that mental Illness (and anyone with one or knowing someone who is living with it ,or works in the area will agree)
mental illness can be defined and diagnosed .That is clear. The signs and symptoms are recognisable .this is for both stable and unstable ( un diagnosed or un managed) therefore someone living with say Schizophrenia (un managed & professionally diagnosed) will experience voices usually ones that speak about self harm,harming others or extremely negative concepts. They will see people that other people do not see.
In this un managed or unstable state one is not interacting with Spirits or having spirit communication.Spirit communication is never negative in nature,it doesnt tell one to harm themselves or hurt others ever.It also never appears to people in form by means to hurt or encourage harm. That isnt to say they are unable to have spirit contact actually far from it.
but as anyone say with schizophrenia will know if they are managing their symptoms (ie.voices & hullucinations) through a health plan usually involving a number of people from Psychiatrist,doctor etc .and they are interested in mediumship either personally or themselves then when they are stable are better prepared to know the difference between actual spirit contact and an episode. ( i write this with absolute respect to those living with mental illness ).

[Kiran]

Thanks for posting this Rana. I guess a lot of us know of someone with a mental health issue, myself included.

[SoulChild]

One interesting thing I have learned about religion is one of the "seven deadly sins" called "sloth". It is proved to be a complicated sin, and they described how different religions view "sloth" basically, what I got from the documentary is that "sloth" is depression....it is also sadness. I guess that get that definition from the fact that if you have GOD in your life...how can you be depressed? but, way back in the days they could not define or diagnose depression, therefore it was looked at as a sin. I find that depression effects some cultures more than others....like, and no offense to anyone...but, I don't meet many blacks who say they suffer from depression. Now, don't get me wrong...we get depressed...but, not the kind that docs diagnose...and it may very well be that we can't afford a psych....LOL (j/k)...well, I know I can't..but, or we don't want to pay a psych tell us we are depressed when we already know we are. Anyway, back on topic...but, I don't understand depression, especially if you are religious based on the explanation above. I don't judge people who say they are depressed, and I realize that something is wrong...whether mental or chemical....yet, their should be a solution for it somewhere out there.....but, untill then...I wish all people suffering from depression an exit.

[Rana]

thankyou Elizabeth for your input and opinion i appreciate and invite everyone's. i think that possibly the reason (and i dont know the studies) that you feel there isnt "depression" in your community is because from what i know is your community has a strong sense of family ,togetherness. an awareness of culture ,a brother and sisterhood. I know much about depression because of my close friend and endevour to understand it and as a nurse bring awareness into all communites ,try and release the stigma attatched to it. She say " yes i live with mental illness yet it isnt my personality,it isnt even me " she has a chemical imbalance that is defines as "clinical depression" that chemical is lithium that is required to regulate mood and feelings in us , it helps serotonin and happiness. so because she doesnt produce and regulate this naturally she naturally feels very down (depressed) .for her it is a combination (Whollistic) of medication ,counselling,group therapy when she is experiencing an overwhelming episode of symptoms brought on by this imbalance.
She can usually manage everyday life (with regular medication) like anyone else .a recent breakdown was caused by the death of a parent etc.
She is 48 and was diagnosed at 27. the onset was sudden and came at a time when she was in her words "top of her game" a manager of a successful corporation ,a healthy social life,a partner all that ..hit her like bricks , back then 20 or so years ago ..the treatment in general wasnt whollistic nor was the way society viewed one living with mental illness. we in Australia have come along way yet i know and understand in the world we have along way to go..we see depression on many levels occurring in children.
i think even like you said Elizabeth that some people in your country requiring diagnosis or councelling couldnt afford access to someone who can help ,thats tragic because the numbers are rising. people need to know you are not defined by you r mental illness.you can lead a happy life.

[mcheraghimn]

Interesting topic!

One interesting thing I have learned about religion is one of the "seven deadly sins" called "sloth". It is proved to be a complicated sin, and they described how different religions view "sloth" basically, what I got from the documentary is that "sloth" is depression....it is also sadness. I guess that get that definition from the fact that if you have GOD in your life...how can you be depressed? but, way back in the days they could not define or diagnose depression, therefore it was looked at as a sin. I find that depression effects some cultures more than others....like, and no offense to anyone

The same thing or nearly the same thing about deadly sins also exists in Islam (with different categories) but one of the most important of those "biggest sins" is "hopelessness" not "depression". I personally believe depression comes after hopelessness. I'd like to say "depression" is medical name, so like any other disease it requires treatment. But what leads "hopelessness" to "depression" was mentioned by oceanentity. The society can't see them, they ran away from them and finally the society loses one of its members. So I myself always keep my hopes alive.
I live in the middle-east. One of my friends moved to England. He said something interesting about the difference of life methods:

People living in the middle-east continue to live peacefully without severe depression until 60 then they die.
People living in England continue to live until 40 then they wallow in self-pity until 80 then they die.

I don't know what I said was related to the topic but that was all I could say! By the way I couldn't find the word "whollistic" in any dictionary!

the treatment in general wasnt whollistic nor was the way society viewed one living with mental illness

[Narnia]

... By the way I couldn't find the word "whollistic" in any dictionary! ...

Wholistic is an alternative spelling of Holistic ...

I site my trusty dictionary ... Webster's New World College Dictionary ...

Holistic and or Wholistic: (adj) 1. of or relating to holism. 2. of, concerned with, or dealing with wholes or intergrated systems rather than with their parts [holistic health care].

Hope that helps you!

[mcheraghimn]

Wholistic is an alternative spelling of Holistic ...

I site my trusty dictionary ... Webster's New World College Dictionary ...

Holistic and or Wholistic: (adj) 1. of or relating to holism. 2. of, concerned with, or dealing with wholes or intergrated systems rather than with their parts [holistic health care].

Hope that helps you!

Thanks: (Actually I hate using Webster dictionaries because of their phonetic symbols!!)

[Kiran]

Hmm its interesting the way this thread went from talking about schizophrenia to depression!
I think there are many definitions of depression and no, the medical profession don't know or understand all of them.
I also feel that the remedy is too quickly a bottle of pills which can sometimes actually aggrevate the situation instead of helping it (I know from personal experience with my mother and niece).
The holistic approach is the best way to go....alleviate the immediate symptoms if severe and then treat the cause.

In relation to schezophrenia, its interesting to note that many of the older races would have regarded these people as shamans and medicine men/women.

I think its great that this taboo subject is being discussed as there is still a huge stigma attached to people suffering from mental health issues and this is usually due to ignorance or lack of knowledge on the topic.

[Narnia]

... I find that depression effects some cultures more than others....like, and no offense to anyone...but, I don't meet many blacks who say they suffer from depression. Now, don't get me wrong...we get depressed...but, not the kind that docs diagnose...and it may very well be that we can't afford a psych....LOL (j/k)...well, I know I can't..but, or we don't want to pay a psych tell us we are depressed when we already know we are ...

You know, I have to agree with you SoulChild ... over the years I have noticed/observed that many diagnosed mental issues/illnesses only seem to have greater effect on white people in Western culture(s).

Manic depression, Bi-Polar, Anorexia, Bulimia, Schizophrenia, ADD, ADHD, Passive Aggressive, Anger Management and even Apathy are all mental issues/illnesses diagnosed primarily amongst white people - Asians, Hispanics, African decent, Middle Eastern decent do not seem to have as many mental health issues/illness as those of the white Western culture(s). Although these illnesses can be found in every culture, but on a tiny, tiny scale in comparison to how it is amongst white folk in the Western culture(s), where it almost seems to be rampant in some cases.

I sometimes wonder if the media has any direct effect on people in these regards. Drugs are always being advertised on the radio and TV as if it's to be expected you're supposed to have some sort of mental health issue. Anything you think your 'suffering' from - oh look - there is a pill for it.

Here in the US, there seems to be a lot of unchecked mental health issues ... and it's scary, because 9 times out of 10, these people do not even realize that their mental health isn't healthy and that is actually quite easy to put in check.

Anyway, this is a great topic indeed ... I'll add more when I don't have a hungry man waiting on me to make some grub!

[SoulChild]

I always think the media has a direct effect. i want to say more as well, but I just wanted to let you guys know that this thread is indeed interesting and educational.....thanks

[mcheraghimn]

According to what I was reading last night, the number of adults and children in the US using mental treatments has risen 73% and 50% (since 1996). It also commented that unfortunately the ones who suffer from serious mental illnesses still can't access those treatments. So a large number of them are unidentified.

[Rana]

hi , mcheraghimn .. when i am unaware of the spelling of words when im writing in an unofficial sense i make it up ..so sorry .. and thanks polly for the correct use .. i agree lorri with the over use of medications without treating the the person in reguards to their personal experiences , looking at their support system or lack of it, the relationships in their families or peer groups, understanding if what they have come to believe has an effect on their illness (or how it manifests) ..this is the ideal i would like to see adopted .or followed through after that crisis subsides and they are no longer at risk.
each individual case deserves an individual approach with all areas examined and the person is actively involved in the process that will lead to their happiness and successful management of their illness.
In general it would be beneficial to combine all the above into this persons life ,and through trial and error adjust and re try ..not just give up on them.
I lived with my EX partner for 10 years (before i was a Nurse) unaware until we parted that he was diagnosed with Paranoid schizophrenia ,i now know that in the last 3 years it was evident but neither of us knew. He was Chilean born ,living in Australia most of his life and had a very close ,supportive community structure .sadly many other aspects of his upbringing and experiences lead to his onset , this is something we are seeing in the worlds cultures because of all the changes occurring to these once solid structures (but i am not an authority on this) but as a human i can understand the whys?.
Thankyou Lorri for sharing your story you will be a good source of insight in this matter.

[Rana]

According to what I was reading last night, the number of adults and children in the US using mental treatments has risen 73% and 50% (since 1996). It also commented that unfortunately the ones who suffer from serious mental illnesses still can't access those treatments. So a large number of them are unidentified.

thankyou for this information..it sent chills of sadness and frustration thru to my core .. isnt it mazing what the governments of the worlds dont SEE .. when sean made our MW mix Cd. ithink it was patrick who directed me to a new music biography made by the guys who did "one giant leap" on it ,it shows a clip with (his name just left my brain) talking about children with ADHD & ADD he talks its that way he says it that made sense..he says now when children are hyperactive,cant sit still,are expressive ,express their creativity ,their emotions they are drugged at an early age ,this creativity is driven away,seen as a disorder ..he said this would never happen in eastern cultures because that side of them is nurtured,encouraged..he is outraged by this trend of pharmaceuticals even reaching children..and yeah as you said above here mcheragihmn that feeling of hopelessness is reaching crisis point ..and now children are feeling hopelessness also ..i am a hyperactive person ..mum says when i was a child (born 1974) i was moreso hypo than what was "normal" for then, sure i couldnt sit still for long periods,or my concentration would wander when i became uninterested (was testing at school especially for the teacher ..but we worked it out) i would have been hyper in now days diagnosis to the point of being drugged with a child created drug which is valium..but my mum and dad knew i needed more outlets physicaly and for longer, as most of you know in our days we played in trees,swam in rivers,walked or rode a bike everywhere ..used our imaginations to create games,inner stories,drawings ..all that which was a huge outlet for anything else going on ..a balance,a release ..an expression of spirit. i was allowed to ride my bike outside on a full moon in the backyard thats a great memory i have.. now ..i have a husband to say "ok sit down for a minute and relax with me" or i focus ..i hope parents of this world realise this need in thier children ..and stay on track ..and dont drug them ..dont numb their souls ..if id had mine numbed ..id rather not be here .

[Narnia]

.. isnt it mazing what the governments of the worlds dont SEE ..

Or as with the US gov (and for a long time), it's not a matter of 'seeing' ... oh no, they 'see' it alright - it's just that those in gov positions don't care about the people, period. Their attitude: 'Why should money be spent on people we don't even know or care about?'

Although, I will say - change is happening, things are being shaken up - it is nice to an effort being made by the gov - in changing the old crusty attitude - but it's going to take a long while.

[Logio]

In relation to schezophrenia, its interesting to note that many of the older races would have regarded these people as shamans and medicine men/women.

I think its great that this taboo subject is being discussed as there is still a huge stigma attached to people suffering from mental health issues and this is usually due to ignorance or lack of knowledge on the topic.

I think that is very interesting, Lorri. I do see Schizophrenia as the offset of some mentalities unable to cope with reality or the mythology of established religion. Also, there could be a lot of truth in the creation of religion because of certain mentalities.
I believe there may be a conjoining of two factors that may have driven religion to where it is today:

1. Think that were unable to be explained, were spiritualized.
2. People who had visions because of the distortion of their mentalities with reality.

I posit with these two concepts have feedback loops that feed in and out of each other.

Man in most (if not all) cultures has been known to catagorize things that he doesn't understand such as his fears, the making of schizoprenics, or people of transgender identity into priests or shamens. I personally see religious structures as a cultural default, an attempt to normalize the "not normal."...and cultural behaviors such as mores and taboos were "ironed" out by the structure of religious beliefs.

Nathan

[Kiran]

I thought it very interesting that this topic came up as I received a call from my niece on Friday evening and she is in a seriously bad way right now. Unfortunatley she is in London and I am here in Ireland and judging by the condition she was in, she is likely to be 'sectioned' beofre I get over there to see her.
Most of her issues started after smoking cannabis etc. She has never touched alcohol ever but used to smoke this and the medical profession feels this is what set her symptoms off.
She has a lot of emotional stuff to deal with too and found my sister when she died and has never dealt with this. What I meant in my earlier post about treating the whole is precisely because of the way my niece has been treated.
They constantly say she is self harming but she is not, not in the real sense of self harming. She believes she has insects etc inside her skin and she is trying to get them out.
Because this behaviour doesn't fit neatly into a box, they give her the label that almost fits.
Instead of getting her counselling and helping her come to terms with the emotional stuff, its a case of pump her full of medication to calm her down and then talk with her but by this stage, she is so out of it on the medication, she cannot remember or feel what she did that started her off in the first place.
Sorry to rant on but I need to get this out of my system...I am helpless to help her as the rest of her family...father, stepmother etc have washed thier hands of her as they don't understand the illness. Her son is gone now to live with his father in case she harms him (never would!) and she has lost everything. Who is there to be an advocate for her? Where is the support she needs most? Where is the medical profession - answerable to thier mistreatment of someone that they do not have time to handle one on one?

[Rana]

Or as with the US gov (and for a long time), it's not a matter of 'seeing' ... oh no, they 'see' it alright - it's just that those in gov positions don't care about the people, period. Their attitude: 'Why should money be spent on people we don't even know or care about?'

Although, I will say - change is happening, things are being shaken up - it is nice to an effort being made by the gov - in changing the old crusty attitude - but it's going to take a long while.

yes ..so true .. they do "see" and choose not to..as you say here change IS having to happen.laws are beginning to reflect change in attitudes (In Australia) . Forums and education for people are bringing things in to the open to be discussed ,shared and understood.

[Rana]

I thought it very interesting that this topic came up as I received a call from my niece on Friday evening and she is in a seriously bad way right now. Unfortunatley she is in London and I am here in Ireland and judging by the condition she was in, she is likely to be 'sectioned' beofre I get over there to see her.
Most of her issues started after smoking cannabis etc. She has never touched alcohol ever but used to smoke this and the medical profession feels this is what set her symptoms off.
She has a lot of emotional stuff to deal with too and found my sister when she died and has never dealt with this. What I meant in my earlier post about treating the whole is precisely because of the way my niece has been treated.
They constantly say she is self harming but she is not, not in the real sense of self harming. She believes she has insects etc inside her skin and she is trying to get them out.
Because this behaviour doesn't fit neatly into a box, they give her the label that almost fits.
Instead of getting her counselling and helping her come to terms with the emotional stuff, its a case of pump her full of medication to calm her down and then talk with her but by this stage, she is so out of it on the medication, she cannot remember or feel what she did that started her off in the first place.
Sorry to rant on but I need to get this out of my system...I am helpless to help her as the rest of her family...father, stepmother etc have washed thier hands of her as they don't understand the illness. Her son is gone now to live with his father in case she harms him (never would!) and she has lost everything. Who is there to be an advocate for her? Where is the support she needs most? Where is the medical profession - answerable to thier mistreatment of someone that they do not have time to handle one on one?

i hear you lorri. and i feel for you too. and this precious girl. is she being case managed ? who is acting on her behalf ? to decide her treatments.what medications she will have or can do without.is it psychosis she has been diagnosed with ? the insects she feels sound like that.then she can with time return her bodies balance. it is frustrating and sad when we see the inner pain of these beautiful people manifest in such a tragic and violent way.that flows into each painful experience to the next. then the breakdown of her family unit starting with her own child/ren ..then her extended ones.. im hoping after she passes her acute stage of this (and how it is being managed and you said with medication ) she has intensive psycological councelling to begin to tap into her inner and connect to her painful experiences that make her feel unworthy of herself and her son. 1st and most on the list .she needs to move away from where she is...she needs to have her blood checked to see where all her levels are at.. and all the rest im sure you are aware of..please keep us posted on how she is.
my friend (as you know) was admitted to a Psyche unit following a deliberate overdose this afternoon. there is a mental health act that if you attempt suicide after the 3rd time you are involuntarily admitted to the hospital and then a unit. i have talked to her,the nurses there.the doctor .she is safe there for now from harming herself.luckily she has a lawyer cousin who is her medical power of attorney which states by her what she can and cannot receive when in this acute state drug wise.so they have to consult with her own psychiatrist and may not alter any of her medications. she cannot have valium or tranquilisers.because when she feels this way at this stage she screams for every drug availiable because she wants to be numbed and drugged out. this way it prevents her from herself. but she has created the plan when she is out of the acute stage and managing her symptoms.

[Kiran]

Thanks for your kind words Rana. I had great difficulty in getting any conversation out of her really although I did ask for other contact numbers but she was too far gone to understand or give them to me.
I only had my sister to ask how my niece was doing so she feels so isolated and alone since my sister died. Its hard for me to find any information as I don't know the medical team looking after her right now.
I keep trying to call her back and I am hoping once she is calmer, I might get her doctor's number from her and have a chat with them.
All I know is yes, she has psychosis and possibly schizophrenia too...I don't know what meds she is on as I cannot contact any of the team supposed to be looking after her.
Martin suggested going over to UK to see if I can contact anyone about her but its not even knowing where to start thats the hard thing and like you, she will want me to stay and be her 'mum' but I have my own stuff going on here too.
Hmm...will see if I get hold of her tonight and keep trying if not. Will let you know how I get on of course

[Rana]

the interesting point to look at in relation to shamanic practices by elder apache say , when they experienced an induced vision it was because of their wisdom ,spiritual knowledge and place in the hierachy of their tribe .many of their visions were positive ,for the direct benefit of a person or tribe.this can be said of many mediums,healers,prophets to name a few of the time. with those living with the symptoms of schizophrenia it is commin that they are experiencing negative hullucinations ,the main theme is aimed at hurting themselves or others. when the sufferer is in touch with this reality (for them) it isnt a pleasant experience for them,it causes them alot of distress.. spirit for those people who are mediums or healers or just intuitive will know nothing negative will be communicated,definately not causing hullucinations that will one to hurt themselves violently,or hurt anyone else.it is an acknowledged known trusted intuitive feeling one gets when in direct contact with that of spirit ,it is a good and positive feeling.
naturally the universe has created schizophrenia to provide learning experiences to those who live with it.just as spirit has brought about abuse on many levels and everything else.but just as a child who has grown up in an abusive household experiences the world , so to must they find their way thru their thinking and find their peace within it, so to with those with schizophrenia .. its knowing what holds you back,taking control ..knowing your mind ,your thinking, feeling spirit and re connecting to that source.. and for those who may stumble accross our posts here .from me i would say .. when you find spirit ..you will know the difference between that which is a hullucination because of its content ..and that which is spirit .. recconnecting to your true self.. can only be empowering. and we have all experienced things in all our lives be they from abuse,eating disorders,homelessness,neglect,broken hearts,addictions whatever it is ..we are all experiencing on many levels ..trying to either control ..or let go.. its natures way and we are all a part of it.. we just need not to catorgorise ..so much in society. my friend above cant really say her name out loud here ill call her A ..used to say "you treat me different to anyone else in my culture or friends why " i say
" you are living with depression ..i was an abused wife in my past relationship ..so what ! that doesnt change how i see you ,or you as a person,you manifest down suicidal thoughts at times, i can be highly untrusting and withdrawn ..and ? " we then started talking about people we knew or know in this light ..her answer
" and jen has a drinking problem ,casey had an eating disorder,lisa has to be in control of everyone,david cant rest in his home unless it is clinically clean, babara only feels worthy when she has a sexual relationship " our lists went on & on & on .. are all these things we experience eventually be classified ? will they be drugged for this or shunned by society ? ive gone off track but do you see what im meaning.. we all have life experiences and al come with different chemical makeups than the next .. but we dont need to be discriminated by it ..or exclude spiritual practices because of it ..just to have an awareness of your mind and the way it manifests thoughts into form ..to take control of what it is you may be disadvantaged by ,take control of it..by getting to know yourself..any way ive rattled on i better get to bed its 11.10 pm and i work at 730am tomorrow ..uhh ohh