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    Thread: The Paradox of Oneness

    1. #1
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      Default The Paradox of Oneness

      Many of the most ancient spiritual teachings talk of the ONENESS of all life, and many of us that are waking up from the dream of separation can intuitively feel at at times directly experience the truth of this. It can still be hard to get your head around, for it is one of the greatest paradoxes of existence in this realm. We are one, yet there is unquestionably an apparent separation between subject and object, witnesser and witnessed; between us and that which we perceive as outside of us.

      Paradoxes are neat and should be celebrated. Like koans, they break down the conceptual mind a little bit and provide S P A C E, in which Being can be felt and realised.

      This thread is to share interesting insights and even mathematical models that help us grasp oneness/nonduality. feel free to jump in!
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      The Klein Bottle







      The Klein bottle is important – if you need an image to help you solve a 'philosophical problem' - because it gives an actual example of a surface that is continuous and unitary and yet appears to display the features of 'inside/outside'. The age-old 'problem' of the relationship between 'one and many' requires that difference is possible. How do you get One to self-differentiate? An apparent distinction between 'inside/outside' would be one way. In other words, in terms of your actual experience, this amounts to the distinction between yourself (as the good old classical 'subject') and the 'outside world' (as the good old classical 'object')..

      Like the Moebis Loop, the Klein Bottle indicates, in concrete (and mathematical – that's important, because we need both kinds of discourse) terms, how you can have the logical appearance of 'twoness' (duality) where you actually have only a unity and continuity. Of course, Moebius Loops and Klein Bottles are still 'objects' of logic, of logical intellect:and that means (paradoxically, as it would seem) that they are 'objects' constructed by dualistic thinking that indicate what must ultimately be transcendent (and this means: transcendent to dualistic thinking itself).. So, in effect, they are excellent meditative devices, a bit like Zen koans, but their paradoxical value for meditation is obviously not mathematical (mathematically, there is no great problem about them, no paradox) but comes into play when you begin to ask: if the experience of my 'self' is like one apparent surface of a Moebius Loop or a Klein Bottle, and if the experience of my 'world' is like the other apparent surface of one of these topological figures, then what does this tell me about what my experience of self/world is really all about? One more thing: a 'shape' in space means that there must be a 'space' for the 'shape': what, in experience, is this 'space', if it is not the 'shape' itself, but prior to it?

      The Sphere for a long time was a symbolic figure of Totality; but a Sphere actually presupposes two incommensurable surfaces. The Moebius Loop and the Klein Bottle are far more itneresting and useful symbols for Totality (or Unity, Oneness).. Make of this what you will! Happy journeys on the one surface of being.

      - Frederick Winsor
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      Another visual representation of apparent individuation/differentiation within a field of oneness...




      (Imagine an infinite number of loci or points arising within the sphere, each representing 'separate' forms in the world of the manifested)
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      No one being any greater or less than any other as All are One.
      I love this discussion. And I'll certainly return with more thoughts when the mind is clear.
      Good Thread.


      Growth Through Adversity

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      "What then, is the heart of the highest truth, the core of knowledge, the wisdom supreme? It is, "I am the Self, the formless One; by my very nature, I am pervading all."
      Advadhuta Gita
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      I drew that donut-shaped sphere ages ago, right out of my own head. It's one of the illustrations I created for my books I was writing then. Easy enough to *realize,* cause it's the left and right cerebral hemispheres, looping around and around, universally/reflectively.

      Now I see that a scientist on Maui is being honored for ...currently..."inventing" the idea. Supposedly, he's still trying to work out the math of "his" drawing.

      I think Hawking has one, too.

      Funny! Everybody's searching for themselves...out there!

      As for the *Core,* by then, *at the pinnacle,* knowledge has dropped off like rocket boosters and Intuition has taken over.

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      There is only one person here !!!

      We are the Fabric of the universe .... pure intelligence in every square inch !!!

      Just as an ingredient is to a cake recipe ....In the end its all cake... "oneness"

      To be a part of it is to mean you are it !!!!

      We are all ingredients to the world ....

      In time we all come to the same conclusion ... "separation never occurred on any level''
      UNI in UNIVERSE MEANS one; having or consisting of one: unicellular | unicycle
      This great, Supreme God of all the Gods is limited in one respect: He cannot take Himself out of you , anything or anyone else.You are the projector and the screen ...you are the movie and every player is you ....The Projector - The Bodys eyes ...the screen = the world and the universe you see...Know thy self ...

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      Hi everyone!
      Actually I don't call it a paradox, but "two viewpoints". And it's kind of important.
      I want to start it in this way: We define two viewpoints: 1. Identity viewpoint and 2. Essence viewpoint
      1. Identity viewpoint: in this standpoint we emphasize on "similarities" rather than "differences". In other words we just look at "what everything has" not "what everything has and doesn't have".
      2. Essence viewpoint: Unlike the first one, our attention is drawn to "what everything has and doesn't have".
      ---------------------------------------
      This is everything we need to start to topic with, and now I'm going to explain it a little bit more.
      As you can guess, it is the second viewpoint which makes the "limits". I believe this is the most important thing to pay attention to. When we accept objects as they are, i.e. look at the object through "what it has" (first viewpoint), we cannot define "boundaries", 'cause there is no "absence".

      To clarify, imagine a drop of water and I'll try to explain it in this two viewpoints:
      1. Identity: "A drop of water"
      2. Essence: "A drop of water which is transparent or white, has a special shape (say, spherical), is composed of H and O atoms, exists in liquid phase, weighs 2 grams, etc."

      As you can see, in the second or essence viewpoint we cannot really stop "defining", because there are a lot of aspects which we may even don't know. Pay attention: When we say that a drop of water is white, we implicitly mean that it is not blue, red, etc., that is to say we are presenting the drop through "what it has and what it doesn't have".

      One or many?
      Now imagine that the whole world is composed of water. Better to say, the world is a huge ocean. These are some tricky questions:
      *. Can we define an "essence definition" of water? No, we can't. (think of it!)
      *. What is the "drop of water" in the "identity viewpoint"? It is exactly the ocean, because everything is ocean, but at the same time we can say that a drop of water is both "a drop of water" and "ocean". We do not disregard the ocean.
      *. What happens if a drop of water falls into the ocean? ...
      The answer to this questions lies in the understanding of both viewpoints:
      1. Identity: Since we define the drop as the ocean, the drop is not destroyed, actually it somewhat finds a more thorough existence.
      2. Essence: The drop will be destroyed, because as you may remember we defined some limitations. For example we said that the drop is spherical and weighs 2 grams; but now these attributes don't exist. This leads to an important conclusion: There is no ocean in the "Essence Viewpoint".

      I stop at this point since the post will become too long; hope I can continue it later

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      Hey there mcheraghimn ... how wonderful to see you again, my friend!

      Wow ... you bring up some very interesting and fascinating perspectives to the topic ... love it ... it is so paramount to expand the thought process to fully understand, pretty much everything that is out there .... the more 'viewpoints' the better ...
      In Loving Memory.
      Lion Spirit Walker / September 17, 1963 - Dec 30, 2014.
      ... All with Purpose ...

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      wow that klein bottle is pretty pretty neat .. 'ONENESS' what does this mean to ..ME ... why do i get emotional right now thinking of this .. deeply touched ... moved by this truth we are all reaching toward ..glimpsing ..remembering ... ARE ... i feel on a simple level we are one and divinely so ..that which seperates us is that what has been created by human/in body with ego mind ..with purpose thought .. to be in the oneness ..is to KNOW and act on what is instinctively good for ALL not just one as a singular entity. it is when people strayed away form this knowledge that we created the monster that is Earth today ... greed and want for power and MORENESS .. took over ...









      " BE PRESENT "

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      Love the different perspectives everyone is bringing to this...it has the makings of an excellent topic. Whether explored intellectually with the mind, experientially or intuitively with the senses, it's a radical and powerful theme for reflection, taking us right to the core of what life is, or isn't. I will revisit
      Check out ELADRIA ~ an epic, highly acclaimed fantasy/sci-fi/metaphysical novel!
      "The meaning of human existence is explored in this beautiful, richly and intensely woven tale. The author takes us on the journey of a lifetime.
      "The most beautiful and thought-provoking book I have ever read."

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