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View Full Version : Help stop gay people being tortured & killed in Iraq



BlueStar
August 25th, 2009, 03:21 PM
Human Rights Watch has reported a campaign by Shiite extremists and Iraqi militia of torture and murder against anyone suspected of being gay (or simply 'not masculine' enough). Hundreds have already been killed and tortured in the most grotesque ways imaginable. I will spare the details, as the report made for distressing reading.

It is believed that certain members of Iraq's security forces have been working with the militias, "colluding" to spread fear about the "feminisation" of Iraqi society and promoting only one remedy: eradicating homosexuality.

The Human Rights Watch report, entitled They Want Us Exterminated, categorises much of the violence being perpetrated against homosexuals in Iraq as being part of the gender-based violence that is found throughout the country but is usually reserved for penalising women based on so called "honorable motives". The report establishes a link between violence against gays and the perception of "unmanly" men in Iraq, which is seen as a key feature of Westernisation thought to have been brought to the country by occupying forces.

Essentially, the claim that homosexuality appears to indicate a man lacking masculinity is the main focus of these attacks; not the victim's actual or perceived sexuality in and of itself. If this is true, the apparent hatred against homosexuals runs deeper than mere disapproval, but speaks to the very foundations of Iraqi society, exposing the strict gender norms that are enforced in the country and ties to the Women's Rights situation in the country also.

The report vociferously condemns the lack of action from Iraq's authorities, and compels the United Nations to co-ordinate with Iraq's government to create "rapid resettlement" plans for endangered Iraqis.

Please Sign this petition (http://www.thepetitionsite.com/24/help-stop-anti-gay-violence-in-Iraq) urging President Obama to apply pressure on the Iraqi government over the human rights violations Iraq's gay citizens face.

Lion Spirit Walker
September 1st, 2009, 03:46 AM
Done.
This brought me to tears, from both my heart and eyes.
As I had written in signing the petition, situations such as this leave me wondering where is the 'Humanity'?
Rory, when I've written of 'darkness' it is often situations such as this that I am referrring to. These situation are a 'darkness' upon our species, and the earth. If we have no respect for human life, how can there be respect for any Life anywhere?
Anyone who may read this, I am gay and have AIDS. Do you believe I should be tortured and killed???
If not than PLEASE sign this petition.
Do you feel you are Human???
If so than PLEASE sign this petition.

It All truly makes me wonder...
Thank you very much Rory.
[As I wipe the tears from my face.]

Lion Spirit Walker
September 1st, 2009, 03:52 AM
This world is so very unreal.
When existance of a species is in direct contradiction to LIFE itself, the Universe often resolves the contradiction through extinction.
...Ignore my words. But remember there is a Universal Justice...

Kiran
September 1st, 2009, 08:25 AM
Signed and sent my friends. No-one has the right to dictate to another how they live!:two hearts:

Love you both very much!!

BlueStar
September 1st, 2009, 07:18 PM
Thanks for signing guys. Yes, Michael I was very upset when I came across this and happened to read some of the details. I was distraught and horrified at the new and grotesque ways people are coming up with to hurt and kill other people. As someone who goes out of my way to avoid killing flies even, it's just more than my mind can handle. Sadly this petition is a long way short of its target. Maybe because Iraq is a remote place, maybe because people see the word 'gay' and their own conscious or unconscious prejudices take hold, maybe it's not as glamourous as other campaigns.

I stand by my assertion that dehumanisation is the biggest evil in this world - slap a label on someone and you no longer see a human being, a sacred spark of the one Divine consciousness; all you see is a distorted image and story created in your mind. It's an insane way to relate to others and the world.

But, awareness is rising. Turn back the clock only a few years and the majority wouldn't have batted an eyelid about such things. Now the tide is turning and more people are becoming aware. It's slow, as with any evolutionary process. But it is happening - this board is proof enough of that and our all being here.

Rana
September 2nd, 2009, 12:50 PM
if i start i wont stop because as we all know the hate crimes against humanity by humans past and present is enough to make us more insane than those who create it .
i will sign this without a whim ..

planetlove
September 4th, 2009, 03:23 AM
Forgive them for they know not what they do or say !!!!!!!!!!
V

Kiran
September 4th, 2009, 08:26 AM
Forgive them for they know not what they do or say !!!!!!!!!!
V

And then some of them know exactly what they do!! But I do feel what you are saying honey :)

Lotus Flower
September 4th, 2009, 11:15 AM
Have signed it.

bless be

Kiran
September 4th, 2009, 11:59 AM
Have signed it.

bless be

Welcome home honey...good to see you here again :)
HUGS

BlueStar
September 4th, 2009, 04:09 PM
Thanks for signing guys :) :yourock:

Lion Spirit Walker
September 8th, 2009, 12:02 AM
It is not up to any of us to forgive those who act with such careless destruction and disregard toward Life...

Logio
September 8th, 2009, 12:34 AM
Sorry folks, truth hurts but...just because Obama is a Dem, do not think he is going to concern himself with this particular human rights issue...not even Hillary would involve herself, because she would know of its futility; one would have to irradicate that religion and gain control of that state before that is even attempted.

Nathan

Lion Spirit Walker
September 8th, 2009, 12:43 AM
Pardon me for debating this here.
I do not believe that what is required is the irradication of a religion and/or the control of any country. In actuallity, I believe what you are referring to is very much what occurred to Tibet. And I am STRONGLY opposed to such actions, by anyone. It is Never the right answer.
What is being done here is allowing Our Voices to be heard. No one should be silenced.
p.s., did you sign the petition???
:superman:

Logio
September 8th, 2009, 02:37 AM
Pardon me for debating this here.
I do not believe that what is required is the irradication of a religion and/or the control of any country. In actuallity, I believe what you are referring to is very much what occurred to Tibet. And I am STRONGLY opposed to such actions, by anyone. It is Never the right answer.
What is being done here is allowing Our Voices to be heard. No one should be silenced.
p.s., did you sign the petition???
:superman:

Take the gun away from a murderer and you still have the murderer.
I do not advocate the eradication of peaceful religions or states - only the dismantling of the ones that kill in the name of their religion, or states for their virulent ideology. This is the antithesis of what the Chinese government has done in relationship to Tibet. My blessings are for Tibet.

Lion Spirit Walker
September 8th, 2009, 02:46 AM
Nathan, you are a friend to me. Please have no doubt of this.

In the statement you made above, you've in effect brought down ALL states and All theologies and ideologies.
And I noticed you hadn't answered with regard to whether or not you had signed the petition.

Logio
September 8th, 2009, 02:58 AM
Nathan, you are a friend to me. Please have no doubt of this.

In the statement you made above, you've in effect brought down ALL states and All theologies and ideologies.
And I noticed you hadn't answered with regard to whether or not you had signed the petition.

Absolutely untrue. Each sect has its own theology. And to say that the line of reasoning: that some states are like all states....is logically invalid and therefore not good reasoning.

I have not signed the petition, not that I don't agree with it, but I deem it to be ineffectual, because it does not equate with the nature of the Obama administration.

Lion Spirit Walker
September 8th, 2009, 03:10 AM
The only time that we are ineffective is when we do not try.

With regard to the issue of muderous states, theologies, and ideologies.
Name One Person (let alone state, etc.) Who Has Not Cotributed To The Destruction Of Life Upon This Planet Earth. Name just one.
As you stated, taking a gun from a murderer doesn't change their murderous intent.
How do you like knowing You are a murderer???

Logio
September 8th, 2009, 03:54 AM
The only time that we are ineffective is when we do not try.

This a good ideal, but not necessarily true.



With regard to the issue of muderous states, theologies, and ideologies.
Name One Person (let alone state, etc.) Who Has Not Cotributed To The Destruction Of Life Upon This Planet Earth. Name just one.
This is a very philosophical statement...you might be referring to Ghandi eating a harmless plant.



As you stated, taking a gun from a murderer doesn't change their murderous intent.
How do you like knowing You are a murderer???

hmmmm...I don't quite understand this statement...but...
If you are referring to me being a murder indirectly by my not signing the petition, I don't agree.
If you are referring to those who kill because of their ideologies then it must be stated clearly, that some don't consider religious execution murder.

I don't think you should let my personal opinion get you upset; there are plenty of people who will agree with you.

Respectfully,

Nathan

Lion Spirit Walker
September 8th, 2009, 04:06 AM
I honestly could not care less what anyone thinks of me.
The fact is that Anyone alive upon this planet at this point in time is a contributing factor to the destruction of All Life upon the Earth, without exception. And if no one acts to change the 'system', the system continues it's prosession to complete destruction.
These are facts.
You have a good heart. Don't allow yourSelf to be confused by delusions.

Logio
September 8th, 2009, 05:11 AM
I would like to apologize to Michael and others for creating a debate with this thread; I shouldn't have let my personal feelings get involved. It is not my intention for people to lose hope in their beliefs of a better world.
I have always believed that online petitions were simply a feel-good device for people to vent their frustrations. It may just be my misgivings that nobody really knows who is actually signing these petitions; I guess I have a cynicism toward them that is difficult to disolve.

I would have no hard feelings if the moderators deleted all of the posts I have been involved with in this thread.

Regards,

Nathan

Lion Spirit Walker
September 8th, 2009, 05:21 AM
Nathan my friend, I've actually receive letters from my state senators and governor in responce to the petitions I've signed.
The government listens when the voices are many.
Two specific situations where the desired change occurred with respect to my experiences, was with Gay Marriage in Iowa and the conservation of Sea Otters.
It does work as long as enough people try.
You have a good heart my friend. Remember that.

BlueStar
September 8th, 2009, 12:52 PM
Hey guys,

*Stepping into mod role now* I feel any further debate ought to be transferred to the Unresolved Deliberations forum if you wish to continue the discussion. I respect your views immensely and believe you both have much of interest to say, however I also believe it's important to stay on-topic here and not delve too much into ideological or political debates.

The subjects tackled in this forum can be emotive and therefore I promised the MW Powers That Be (;)) that I'd make sure there are no arguments errupt. Now I'm not saying that you guys are arguing (or would argue) - cos you're both super-cool - but I'm just suggesting that Unresolved Deliberations might be a more appropriate place to continue the discussion (and it does strike me as an interesting, relevant discussion to have).

GROUP HUG time :two hearts:

Lion Spirit Walker
September 8th, 2009, 03:18 PM
Big Group Hugs.
:superman:

Kiran
September 8th, 2009, 03:26 PM
Aww heck!! I am always in for a group hug!!!
Woohoo!!

BlueStar
September 8th, 2009, 04:07 PM
H'oh boy, I'm feeling the luuuuurve :Boy_yes3::two hearts:

Lion Spirit Walker
September 8th, 2009, 04:36 PM
Superman group hugs. [lol]
:superman:

Kiran
September 8th, 2009, 04:55 PM
Super angel group hugs!!!

Logio
September 14th, 2009, 02:20 AM
As a couple of you know, I have decided to leave the board, mostly out of sheer boredom of not relating to most here with a real intellectual discourse. My only regret is that I made the implication that the major religion of Iraq should be eliminated I admit I was wrong; only that the political structure attached to that belief should be removed.
It is not always clear to me when the religion decides to run the state, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the state has always exploited the faith (and its people) for its benefit. The unwitting parishioners may believe that it is the will of whoever, when it is actually the tyrants themselves who propagate that fear. It’s little wonder that church and state should be separated. If the murderers are a sect of a religion, then they should be eliminated along with those who tyrannize -- not the innocents. It cannot be otherwise. My apologies to all I have upset.

p.s. If online petitions make you feel better, then by all means go ahead, but don’t be deluded by the fact that they can really change the atrocities propagated by governments. The agenda of politicians mainly reacts to lobbying and flooded phone lines, because no one can prove who actually signs or triple-signs petitions. Politicians rely on the votes of its constituency; if they are ensured that a populace makes its voice known, then they are more apt to take proper action; this is political science 101. If you are serious about lobbying a concern start a group and begin with your state legislature; I’m sure this is how gay marriage in Iowa was solved. Of course, it helps if the right politition is voted into office.

Respectfully,

Nathan

BlueStar
September 17th, 2009, 03:06 PM
As a couple of you know, I have decided to leave the board, mostly out of sheer boredom of not relating to most here with a real intellectual discourse.

Sorry to hear that Nathan, I hope you will still stay around in some capacity. But as with all things (and in the words of Enigma) 'follow your inner guide'. That's all any of us can do. I am also re-evaluating how and where I am putting my energy and whether the message board format is something which works for me personally. All I know is that changes are happening and changes will be made. But changes are life ;)



p.s. If online petitions make you feel better, then by all means go ahead, but don’t be deluded by the fact that they can really change the atrocities propagated by governments. The agenda of politicians mainly reacts to lobbying and flooded phone lines, because no one can prove who actually signs or triple-signs petitions. Politicians rely on the votes of its constituency; if they are ensured that a populace makes its voice known, then they are more apt to take proper action; this is political science 101. If you are serious about lobbying a concern start a group and begin with your state legislature; I’m sure this is how gay marriage in Iowa was solved. Of course, it helps if the right politition is voted into office.

Respectfully,

Nathan

Thanks for sharing your opinions on this. I would like to share my own. Whilst in some cases you are undoubtedly correct, I do not generally agree. I have known how effective online petitions can be because in the past couple of months I have received word that at least two such campaigns (pressuring Canada to end their seal hunts and pressuring China to stop beating dogs to death) have met with success and changes have been made due to international pressure. Yes, politicians are primarily focused on their constituents, however international opinion and pressure is a very pertinent factor in these days of globalisation and cannot be underestimated.

So I will continue to sign whatever petitions I can and post them on here. Not as a 'feel good' vanity but because I have seen what a difference they can make. Sometimes the smallest acts can contribute to the biggest changes. I have the greatest respect for all the peoples whose names I see upon those petitions because I know that out of love they have taken the time to do something small but meaningful to make a difference in the world and to make their voices heard. When I think about the amount of trash that's on the internet and the mindless ways people waste their time online - becoming involved in websites such as the petitionsite or care2 stands out as being something very valuable indeed.

I do not expect everyone to have the same sensibilities, but to those who do I encourage and applaud them for it :) :superman: