Enigma

[Mr. Brightside]

Seen as a lot of us have come here from the EMB I thought I would start a thread about one of our favorite artists... There is already a thread about the EMB so this is just about Enigma

Do you still listen to enigma?

What are your favorite Tracks/album/videos?

What are your thoughts on Seven lives Many Faces?

I have been into enigma for a lot of years, since about 90/91 and still love a lot about the music, I think the quality has declined a bit over the years (after E4) but I still listen to and adore certain tracks/albums especially Le Roi Est Mort Vive Le Roi. my favorite enigma album at the moment.

Seven lives Many Faces has yet to grab me totally, I quite like a few tracks, Touchness is quite good and same parents is starting to grow on me a bit, the last few enigma albums have grown on me over time and I think this will be the same. I think the artwork for the new album has been superb. Its really striking better than all other enigma releases.

My top ten Favorite enigma tracks

Callas Went Away
My all time favorite enigma track, This was probably the first enigma track I fell in love with, truly beautiful.

Beyond the Invisible
This has grew on me over the years, It is also my favorite enigma video

Almost Full Moon
Reminds me a bit of Callas, great tune, haunting, brings visions of loneliness and heartbreak

Sadness
The first enigma track I heard, will always be a favorite, another cool video also

Prism Of Life
This is enigma at its best, fantastic beat and great lyrics

Return to innocence
This reminds me of hot summer days laying on the beach

Following the sun
Never liked this at first but its grew on me to be one of my favorites

Gravity of Love
Great lyrics which Ruth-Ann sings beautifully

Between Mind and Heart
Another track that grew on me over time

Rivers of Belief
A classic (the whole of MCMXC is a classic)

My favorite video is probably "Beyond the invisible"

What is your favorite track at this moment in time?

[Jester Black]

Yes, I still listen, though admittedly less and less. E4 remains my favorite and Gravitry of Love still tops my list of favorite songs. Its just feels like the soundtrack to my life. Silence Must be Heard is a fav too. Like almost everything on E1 through E4 although Sadeness would probably be my least favorite among those albums.

E5 was a total disaster for me and well everyone knows how I reacted lol.

E6 while Ok, its flatness and repition was disappointing, more so after E7 than before. Ill leave that alone.

That brings us to E7. E7, for me is the best thing Cretu has done since E4. Its also the album that for me popped the bubble. You have to understand that much of my own work was inspired by Enigma, that Cretu was something of an compositional genious to me.

When we had the listening party on the EMB, Martyn said something that caught my attention, something to the effect that except for the keyboards there wasnt a single real sound in it and that Cretu had this massive 400,000 strong library of sample that he could pull from. OK, Ive always known that Enigma used a lot of samples, but the way he put made me point out to him that using tons of samples would open the work up to a ton of criticism. He understood that.

I had no clue at the time just what the scope of all that was. Then some of the producer types on the EMB simply sent me an mp3 that strung samples from the logic library together (I dont use Logic). My jaw literally dropped. The entire melodic structure of Seven Lives was in that string of samples. Now, Ive already mentioned that I always knew that Enigma uses samples. Heck, I sometimes do as well. But in the past, Cretu ONLY used samples to enhance original tracks, generally drums, voice and atmospherics. Furthermore, I ALWAYS thought he ran them through samplers, meaning the samples became notes that are actually played (like I do when I use samples). That string of samples on that mp3 clearly indicated that the entire song was an assembly of samples that was not modified in any way.

To someone like me who held Cretu up as a compositional genious, that was earth shattering. I remember telling myself "I sit here and bust my conjuns yanking my heart to move my audience with something that is an expression of ME and this guy takes a bunch of samples and does what the so-called DJs on acidplanet do and gets held up as a God". I very literally felt betrayed. A little more research and it was clear there was a lot of that going on. I had to stop. I couldnt take it. It became painfully clear that this was a "producers" album, that no real artistic vision went into it. And while its an enjoyable listen, its also a copeout. This record is all about producing revenue and flies in the face of the alleged vision of the Enigma project. Theres more to this that I wont get into, but lets just say that my opinion of cretu and Enigma has totally suffered and largely because Ive gone to tremendous lengths to maintain a level of integrity in my own work and heres the man that I thought of as my artistic role model, quite frankly...cheating.

I know that a lot of folks dont care, but they dont sit here in this studio for hours pulling their hair out trying to come up with the next gem or spending days cleaning up recorded tracks so that my audience can listen to something that actually came from me. They dont get the cramps in their hands from hours of playing the boards or the blisters from playing guitar and the even bloodier ones from playing bass. They dont get the lip sores from playing the flutes, or spend endless hours tweaking the knobs on a board to get JUST that right delay on the arps. They dont lose a nights sleep because they caught the muse and lay down track after track before it makes its sudden exit. They dont despair for months when writers block sets in and nothing works. They dont take a sample, literally break it into 32 pieces and totally rearrange it so that its something new and different than what it started out as. And then theres my drummer Brian, who 4 years ago had his chest crushed when a druken driver slammed into his car. He had a long road back and its painful for him to play. But HE DOES. None of that happened on E7. He took it from a box. As an artist, Im personally insulted by that.

And even so, I still listen to E7 and enjoy it. I just cant credit as a work of art worthy of the kind of praise its gotten.

[Mr B]

Of course i still listen to Enigma and love all the albums.

The only thing i don't understand is that people have trouble with playing E7 SLMF on their Pc. They don't seem to understand that they have to start iTunes, Windows Media Player or another program manually first and pop in the cd to play or rip it. They also don't seem to understand what a "Enhanced CD" is.

AVG anti virus users start complaining that there is a Trojan on the cd which in fact is a false positive result. One wants to start a law suite against the record company because of this, this person keeps holding on that he or she just can't play the cd on the Pc no matter what and that there is a virus on E7.

[Jester Black]

One wants to start a law suite against the record company because of this, this person keeps holding on that he or she just can't play the cd on the Pc no matter what and that there is a virus on E7.

Must be a fellow American! :omg:

[BlueStar]

I will always love Enigma as it has inspired me in so many ways. I think listening to Enigma actually taught me how to fully appreciate music.

I posted my top 10 E songs on the EMF (EMB had more of a ring to it! lol). So like Gollum I'm gonna share them here as well. I wonder if I'm breaching my own copyright or something!

It's so hard to actually choose just 10, but here's the gist of what my top 10 would be:

1. Gravity of Love
Just a musical tour de force - the depth of sound, the passion, the emotion, the atmosphere, the production, Ruth Ann's soaring vocals...this is quite simply a masterpiece and is perhaps my favourite pop song of all time (even calling it a pop song seems to diminish it - but you know what I mean). It was a CRIME that this wasn't a worldwide smash hit and just goes to show you that the music industry is more about promotion, image and other superficialities than it is about quality music. Sheer perfection.

2. The Child in Us
It was very difficult picking between this and Morphing Thru Time for the number two spot, but this pipped the post quite simply because of the sheer EMOTION of it. It's a breathtakingly beautiful song, the perfect interfusion of sounds, samples, instrumentation and vocals. This is a true omni-cultural journey, with singing in at least four languages: it's a transcendant piece which cuts through the barriers of language and culture and seems to focus on the unity of the human experience, love, longing, beauty and emotion. This song still has the ability to make me cry when I hear it. Although the lyrics are initially hard to make out, Cretu sings with heart-stopping passion and love, making me well up just when I think about it. So beautiful, so nostalgic, so heart-warming and moving. I love this song - and I'd die to hear it (and the whole of E3) remastered.

3. Morphing Thru Time
More musical perfection - this is just about the best production Cretu has ever done in my book. Only Cretu could assemble so many different samples and elements and create something so seamless, beautiful, alive, flowing and transcendent. This really is like a journey through time, from the birth of the world and the rise and fall of cultures through to some kind of mystical climax or conclusion or dissolution. So atmospheric, richly layered and emotive - a true dreamscape in sound.

4. 20,000 Miles Over the Sea
A slice of electronic heaven -- this has become my favourite E6 track and one of my all-time favourite 'chillout' tracks. It's so smooth, beautiful and mesmerising, I have images of drifting across sunlit waters, over immeasurable horizons when I listen to this. MC is a true alchemist and this is just pure gold. Takes me away to another world entirely.

5. Beyond the Invisible
This to me fits so perfectly with Morphing Thru Time that it's almost like part two. Similar sounds and themes but more earthy. Again it's beautifully assembled and the lyrics are simply wonderful - and have inspired me at many times in my life. This is almost like an anthem to me, a reminder to look beneath the surface in life, to see the deeper meaning and to enter that magical place that lies hidden beyond the external. This song inspired me to paint what I still consider the greatest piece of work I have ever done, a painting called 'Emancipation', based upon the lyrics "it is time to break the chains of life / If you follow you will see what's beyond reality".

6. Callas Went away
My favourite song on E1. Although Sadeness tends to get all the attention on E1, this quiet song unobstrusively tucked away is the true masterpiece for me: a warm, rich and beautiful ambient piece filled with nostalgia, muted yearning and a tangible sense of atmosphere. I just love it.

7. Return to Innocence
The song that most people of my generation equate with Enigma (even though it came out just 2 or 3 years after Sadeness, few people seem to remember Sadeness, including me). It's such an invigorating, inspiring, triumphant song and again MC takes his samples and weaves something absolutely magical. A real anthem of a song with some wonderfully inspirational lyrics. It also has what I consider to be Enigma's greatest and most moving video - which has to rate as one of the best music videos of all-time.

8. La Puerta Del Cielo
In many ways this is like Return to Innocence, Part Two. It's a shame it didn't share the breakthrough success of its predecessor. This is a fantastic song, evoking a similar feel and style to RtI, with a triumphant, soaring and quite moving vocal by Margarita Roig, combined with a killer production by Cretu. The beats, bass and sounds are all beautifully orchestrated (and I love what sounds like a wild cat snarling!).

9. Voyageur
A fantastic instrumental filled with passion, energy and power. The beat and bass are simply to die for and make me want to dance (and I never dance!). It's a primal, sexy, groovy track and again, it's a shame it didn't enjoy more success upon release, as it have been a dancefloor sensation!

10. Feel Me Heaven
I'm really struggling now because there are so many other songs vying to be included in this list. I have to mention FMH which, like Voyageur, displays a more energetic, vibrant side to Enigma. This is a sophisticated piece of progressive trance, filled with an invigorating frenetic, pulsating energy....it's simply electric. I think this could have been a big underground club hit. It's unstructured, raw and alive but tingling with electricty. I love it.

Honourable mention must go to the following tracks which I also love with a passion and which deserve a place among my favourite Enigma songs. In no particular order:

Shadows in Silence
The Same Parents
Between Mind & Heart
The Piano
We are Nature
Prism of Life
TNT For the Brain (Midnight Man mix - not the original!)
Sadeness
Sitting on the Moon
Hello and Welcome (E6 version)
Seven Lives
I Love You...I'll Kill You

[Mr. Brightside]

Dragged from the bottom of the ocean, Enigma comes out from the deep

So.... anybody still listen to Enigma much

I have been listening to this a lot and have come to the conclusion it is the best track on A Posteriori,

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[Mr B]

Well Sean, to celebrate that the Enigma thread comes back out from the deep, here's the "Out From The Deep" video. :)

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[Krash]

My all time favorite Enigma song. I love the drums.

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Voyaguer was a huge departure for Enigma, but it had some gems on it. My favorite is actually Look of Today, and it is my favorite after Why. However, this is a beautiful song, nobody can deny that. I also like Following the Sun.

LaRcACsTq7U

To be honest, E7 has never really grown on me. There are a couple of gems, The Same Parents is amazing, and the one song with the Spanish women (can't think of the name) is beautiful. E7 is missing something for me, but these songs (just two of MANY) show why I have loved Enigma in the past.

[BlueStar]

Cool, the Enigma thread est vive!!

Enigma will always have a special place in my heart. Enigma taught me to love music and that there was a whole universe of beautiful, extraordinary music beyond the same old homogenised gunk that gets played on the radio. Enigma taught me to listen to and appreciate music fully and inspired me massively as an artist.

I go through phases of listening to it a lot, then maybe drifting away for a while then re-immersing myself in it again. I've learned to stop compartmentalising and judging the albums too much with the mind, and thus have let go of the need to compare them and stuff like 'this song should have more of this/that and shouldn't have this bit or that bit'...music is not meant to be listened to with the mind, but the soul. So even though I find some albums resonate more strongly with me, I love all of them. They are meant to be experienced as a totality and not hacked apart by the mind and critical faculties.

Just last week I re-listened to all the albums again, one a day. Each has their own characteristics and flavour, each suits a different mood or atmosphere. Each is unique and beautiful in its own way. And each has a strong, positive energy...the kind of energy MC channels when he works is of a high magnitude and I even tested this using kinesiology ;) Listening to Enigma is beneficial and strengthens you. Test it yourself.

[Rana]

i will always love enigma .. my favourite song is always sadeness ..being the first one i ever heard way back then .. i also love return to innocence,gravity of love .. actually there isnt many i dont like ..i love some more but depending on how i feel ..i have the DVD collection of video clips which i play atleast once a week.. :):two hearts:

[Mr. Brightside]

This video is fantastic

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[Mr. Brightside]

Just heard this for the first time in ages, sounded amazing

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Don't think twice before you listen to your heart,
Follow the trace for a new start.

[SoulChild]

I think of you guys when I here this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHVoGnZP-0U

[Narnia]

HtLkVbUq1pM

*god* - I LOVE ENIGMA - the sensations and power can sometimes be a little overwhelming!!

especially between 2:57-3:12 ..... *woof!*

[BlueStar]

Its amazing how you can still pick up new elements to an Enigma song even if you've heard it 100 times. For instance I was listening to The Piano the other day and noticed that just as the beat finishes toward the end of the song you can hear the sound of someone sighing, or breathing out. Just one of a million neat little touches - I never noticed it before!

[mary]

I still listen Enigma... but to be completely honest Return to Innocence it is the only song on my actual playlist, but when I was thinking about what's songs to put on the top 10 of mine... well have to add some more to that PL.

Although I enjoyed E7 I just don't know why I listened to it 2 or 3 times and then no more :(... there was no particular reason, I guess when it comes to music I like to feel more than to think, so I don't feel like it, I wish but I don't.

My favorite video is... surprise!!! also return to innocence and Push the Limits.

Top 10
01. Return to innocence
02. The eyes of truth
03. Push the limits
04. I love you... I'll kill you
05. In the shadow in the light
06. Principles of lust
07. Voyageur
08. Turn around
09. Gravity of love
10. Invisible love

[Mr. Brightside]

Images of the universe from the Hubble telescope set to the music of Enigma (Touchness)

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[MystEerieUsOne]

Curious why they didn't seem to want discussions of interpretation on their board.

Such profound material presented, yet...no place to go to process it, and especially to process it with those most immediately sharing the music and its messages.

That was very disappointing.

[Genesis]

HtLkVbUq1pM

*god* - I LOVE ENIGMA - the sensations and power can sometimes be a little overwhelming!!

especially between 2:57-3:12 ..... *woof!*

Thats what they're saying? It should have dawned on me a long time ago to look it up, but i never did. But now that I know, Woah, this song is easily one of my favourites.

That one line: Lifes like a roundabout, a kind of LSD.... I love it.

Realization Dawning,
Genesis

[Narnia]

I loved ENIGMA before became ENIGMA, and my love for ENIGMA will continue, forever and always. ENIGMA is in my veins.

It is incredibly hard for me to single out any ENIGMA piece as being a favourite, ENIGMA is so much more than that. To me, it seems more natural to combine all of ENIGMA's albums - it would be like looking up at the night sky - there is no one absolute favourite part, granted some areas stand out more than others, but that is not the point - every part of ENIGMA is beautiful and important - I just love it all - all of it speaks so clearly to me and I would not trade that for anything.

And, what makes me really happy is that ENIGMA - has brought all of you in to my life (once more) and I treasure that - beyond what words can express.

All of you know - I gladly promote my love for ENIGMA.

The ulitmate dream (for me) would be to ride the soundwaves of ENIGMA and be carried across the Universe .... *oh!* wait minute what am I talking about ... that has already happened .... let's do it again! :)

ENIGMA = :giveheart

:lovemw:

[Lion Spirit Walker]

Dearest Sphinx. That was so very well said. I completely agree. LOL. And here I was beginning to think I was one of the very few who felt that as you've so elloquently expressed here.
Thank you very much for voicing that.
:thanks:

[Mr. Brightside]

Because we all need a dose of Enigma now and again

Turn it up, Turn off the Lights, Take a deep breath and.... sing it at the top of your voice :D

yayayayayayayayayayohohohohohooooooohhhKNEbDN985dk


Following the sun, to find the one
Who's giving you the wings to fly
Following the sun, the golden one
Losing sense for space and time

Can you feel the waves of life
(Can you) hear the sigh of love
Do you believe in it ?

Following the sun, just for the one
Till you'll find the door you thought
Following the sun, like everyone
Searching for a sign of hope

Have a look up to the sky
See the billion stars above
Cos (maybe) on one of them
You'll spend your further life


Beautiful

[Narnia]

Some of you may remember my signature from the EMB days ... ENJOY!! ;)

[Jester Black]

Well, at this point, Ive pretty much gotten Enigma out of my system. I havent listened in months, dont expect to do so any time soon and wont be buying the platinum collection (a first for me as I bouight EVERYTHING else the very day it was released). Unfortunately, the going ons at the EMB pretty much ruined the Enigma experience for me although I did try to hang on afterwards.

The Cretu Goddism Syndrome really got under my skin and really made me see humanity in a lesser light. Funny, considering the "message" of the music. Some people turned it into something like religion and as such became totally intolerant of anyone who didnt bow at their alter.

I bow to no one.

Also being a musician and composer, I felt like certain people saw that as a kind of sacriledge. In fact, one very high placed member confided to me that I was seen as the anti-Cretu on the EMB. Totally irrational.

Furthermore, I find that the arrogance and dismissive attititude that Cretu has towards other musicians that either supported him (i.e. Gad, Peterson) as well as other like artists (i.e. Delerium) enables that behaviour from the Cretu zealots. I find that I dont like the man and find him totally irresponsible as an artist and role model. As an artist myself, I think its paramount that artists maintain a certain decorum that establishes an example of artistic integrity and responsibility. Cretu, as a man, doesn't seem to understand his responsibility as an artist and is more governed by his need for total and unadultrated recognition as the ONLY true artist. Its BS, delusional and totally flies in the face of what I thought Enigma was.

Furthermore, while I tried hard to overlook the obvious lack of true creative vision in E7, that was brought home to me by something that occurred some months back. My son is enrolled at one of the leading audio production school in the nation. As part of his theory class for the bachelors program, he had to suggest and bring in a recorded work to be discussed for its technical merits. He choose E7. The class AND the professer tore it to shreds on the grounds that it was nothing more than a sample library rearranged, but totally unchanged in terms of context. That while Enigma was known to use sampling to a great extent, there had always been creative license at work in the past and that E7 made no such effort to establish an individual vision except on the lyrical side. My sontold me that kids were calling out the names of the loops used from memory while listening. In the end, they considered it a total perversion of the art form.

And you know what? They're right. Even loopers on AcidPlanet had a sense of artistic originality and if they recognized a loop easily, they made sure the producer knew it was unacceptable.

I really have very little respect for the man at this point as I see him as a delusional, over important phony lacking in artistically ethical character. Does it sound nice? Sure. But I cant help but think of Glen Miller and the dedication he had for the progression of music and his quest for the "sound". Or Mozart who completely changed the face of music by throwing away anything anybody else has done and speaking completely from the heart in his OWN words. Those are true musical geniouses and heroes and Cretu is an abberation of everything they stood for. And you know what? Neither expected anyone kissing their feet and neither ever put down their contemporaries. Their work, totally theirs, speaks for itself through the ages.

Just my thoughts. Really dont expect anyone to understand or even agree. Just needed to get that off my chest once and for all.

[BlueStar]

My God Jay, that was one angry post. I swear there was almost steam coming off my computer screen as I read it. I don't see any need for so much antagonism.

Regardless of what you or others say - and regardless of whether you deem me as being a victim of "Cretu Goddism syndrome", I LOVE Enigma. It is my first musical love. Michael Cretu is an inspiration to me, and by all accounts that I've heard, an extremely nice man. Do I think he's a saint? No. Do I love every single song he's ever done. No. But his work actually inspired me in all kinds of endeavours, not just music, but visual art and even my writing. Nothing can change that.

And I really like E7, as do most other people I know. As for the people bitching about loops...I can only find one single Apple loop in Logic which I recognise from E7 and even that sounds quite different because it was edited and sped up. And even if I'm wrong and the whole thing is just loops, then I still don't care, because it's an album I happen to enjoy. And again, nothing can change that.

[Jester Black]

My God Jay, that was one angry post. I swear there was almost steam coming off my computer screen as I read it. I don't see any need for so much antagonism.

Regardless of what you or others say - and regardless of whether you deem me as being a victim of "Cretu Goddism syndrome", I LOVE Enigma. It is my first musical love and it will be my last true musical love. Michael Cretu is an inspiration to me, and by all accounts that I've heard, an extremely nice man. Do I think he's a saint? No. Do I love every single song he's ever done. No. But his work actually inspired me in all kinds of endeavours, not just music, but visual art and even my writing. Nothing can change that.

And I really like E7, as do most other people I know. As for the people bitching about loops...I can only find one single Apple loop in Logic which I recognise from E7 and even that sounds quite different because it was edited and sped up. And even if I'm wrong and the whole thing is just loops, then I still don't care, because it's an album I happen to enjoy. And again, nothing can change that.


No, no. Cretu Goddism Syndrome isnt referring to anyone here. I wouldnt be here if I was. Im referring to certain individuals who went out of their way on the EMB to make life miserable for me and certain others who dared to have a mind of our own musically. You most certainly were not one of those. And again, my thoughts and not really trying to get anyone to agree with me at all. In fact, I fully believe that people should find joy in whatever makes them happy...so long as its not destructive. So I think you finding inspiration in it is a good thing. Its just not working for me anymore for the reasons I stated. And in all honesty, the EMB experience has probably tainted the way i see the man, in fact, Im pretty certain of it.

But I DO feel betrayed by the artist that actually inspired me to create the Black Ether project (well that and the fact that if i didnt do something creative right after 9/11, I probably wouldnt be here today....). And in truth, everytime I see Enigma mentioned here, it takes me back to the EMB and I cant tell you how much Ive learned to hate that place...soo I needed to get it off my chest...purge if you will, so I can move on...hopefully amongst friends.

[BlueStar]

I'm glad you clarified your position Jay. I know you're not alone in having negative experiences with the EMB forum, and I have to tell you the new Enigma forum is not a place you'd want to be around. It's an extremely negative environment. You are among friends here. We are Jedi, not Sith :biglaugh.2::drink:

I do think you were extremely harsh on Cretu, as really all we know of him is from interviews...and as someone who distrusts most forums of media, I don't think we're really qualified to judge someone unless we know them in person. And even then, who are we to judge? Sometimes we measure people to our standards, but we're all so different in this world that even this is futile and useless. It's a shame that you are unhappy with his recent direction and choices but maybe he still deserves your respect for that initial inspiration he gave you? A single moment of inspiration can create a lifetime of change.

[Jester Black]

Perhaps, but im not going to argue the point. In the end, from the fans perspective, it doesnt matter. And I wont take that away from anyone.

But I am more than qualified to judge his musical endeavers just through my academic credentials. And if as as artists and musictologists, we dont dont continuosly question each other on what actually constitutes an original work, then why on earth would anyone take the time and put the effort into learning theory, composition and mastering an instrument or 2 or 10? And if thats the case, well, what are you left with?

Silence.

[God's Toy]

... I know you're alone in having negative experiences with the EMB forum, .

Um WTH? I hope you just forgot to put the word 'Not' in there my friend.
It was mine and I had nothing but! but we all know that story...


Ok I've made my peace, move on...


New Enigma work? Nope I wont be buying, I have moved on in many ways, not bitter just moved on.

[BlueStar]

Um WTH? I hope you just forgot to put the word 'Not' in there my friend.
It was mine and I had nothing but!


Ok I've made my peace, move on...

Ooops sorry I did mean to say 'NOT alone' ! I loved the place cos I got to meet all you wonderful folks...but it was a rocky place at time. Thankfully it's regeneration seems to have inherited the rockiness and we appear lucky enough to have reaped the good karma :bump-1:

Peter is right though. The past is past. We all live and learn and move on.

[Jester Black]

lol, I did see that but understood the "not" HAD to be missing. I was hardly alone, not by a long shot. Oh well LOL.

Peter sometimes Im surprised you still have hair with all the ongoings and the behind the scene stuff. LOL.

You guys are right, but thanks for allowing me to purge. Now I can move on.

[SoulChild]

wow guys,...so, as you all know, I was sort of late finding Enigma...so I am still fresh and in love.....yet, my personality is to never worship anyone. I do also understand that when you are in the spot light....man, if your personality gets out...it can damage you. Yet, we are all human...and every genius is not a 'friendly' person....and may have personality issues and so on. So, I don't judge by that...I don't judge by the samples or anything. As a person who grew up on hip hop music...I mean, sampling is sort of a way of life. But, Enigma makes me happy...I chose it without the radio playing it 100 times a day, and its for me and only me......but, I was so happy to meet people on the EMB who loved this music as I did. I then found out that everyone wasn't so happy....and I've learned things...that I could have done without...but, still the music touches me.....but, then again, like R-Kelly for instance...is a great R&B artist...but, I just can't get past the young girl thing. But, if I didn't know about his thing with young girls...I would still be jamming to the music. I still Jam to his music because it gets play on the radio, yet I wouldn't purchase anything. Just some things as individuals, we can't deal with..and his thing with young girls, I can't deal with. So, hopefully Cretu is not out there messing with 15 year olds.........but, untill then, I will still enjoy the music.

I understand all you guys points...and I appreciate your honesty Jay...I sure didn't know that you felt that way. But, I am glad you got it off your chest...hey, you never know...now that you got it off your chest...and have distanced yourself from the EMF...then, maybe, you will give Cretu another chance.

Also, no matter what he said about Jens and the others....I absolutely Love Jens Gad...and nothing Cretu will say will change that.

[Narnia]

Has anyone recently checked out EnigmaSpace (http://www.enigmaspace.com) ... the top part of the page looks like a preview of what may come ... *Hm?* ... so enigmatic!

[Logio]

Have any of you ever listened to The Art of Noise? I'm thinking maybe Cretu could have been a bit inspired by this group; it has some Enigma qualities to it.

Just curious.

Nathan

[Krash]

Well, at this point, Ive pretty much gotten Enigma out of my system. I havent listened in months, dont expect to do so any time soon and wont be buying the platinum collection (a first for me as I bouight EVERYTHING else the very day it was released). Unfortunately, the going ons at the EMB pretty much ruined the Enigma experience for me although I did try to hang on afterwards.

The Cretu Goddism Syndrome really got under my skin and really made me see humanity in a lesser light. Funny, considering the "message" of the music. Some people turned it into something like religion and as such became totally intolerant of anyone who didnt bow at their alter.

I bow to no one.

Also being a musician and composer, I felt like certain people saw that as a kind of sacriledge. In fact, one very high placed member confided to me that I was seen as the anti-Cretu on the EMB. Totally irrational.

Furthermore, I find that the arrogance and dismissive attititude that Cretu has towards other musicians that either supported him (i.e. Gad, Peterson) as well as other like artists (i.e. Delerium) enables that behaviour from the Cretu zealots. I find that I dont like the man and find him totally irresponsible as an artist and role model. As an artist myself, I think its paramount that artists maintain a certain decorum that establishes an example of artistic integrity and responsibility. Cretu, as a man, doesn't seem to understand his responsibility as an artist and is more governed by his need for total and unadultrated recognition as the ONLY true artist. Its BS, delusional and totally flies in the face of what I thought Enigma was.

Furthermore, while I tried hard to overlook the obvious lack of true creative vision in E7, that was brought home to me by something that occurred some months back. My son is enrolled at one of the leading audio production school in the nation. As part of his theory class for the bachelors program, he had to suggest and bring in a recorded work to be discussed for its technical merits. He choose E7. The class AND the professer tore it to shreds on the grounds that it was nothing more than a sample library rearranged, but totally unchanged in terms of context. That while Enigma was known to use sampling to a great extent, there had always been creative license at work in the past and that E7 made no such effort to establish an individual vision except on the lyrical side. My sontold me that kids were calling out the names of the loops used from memory while listening. In the end, they considered it a total perversion of the art form.

And you know what? They're right. Even loopers on AcidPlanet had a sense of artistic originality and if they recognized a loop easily, they made sure the producer knew it was unacceptable.

I really have very little respect for the man at this point as I see him as a delusional, over important phony lacking in artistically ethical character. Does it sound nice? Sure. But I cant help but think of Glen Miller and the dedication he had for the progression of music and his quest for the "sound". Or Mozart who completely changed the face of music by throwing away anything anybody else has done and speaking completely from the heart in his OWN words. Those are true musical geniouses and heroes and Cretu is an abberation of everything they stood for. And you know what? Neither expected anyone kissing their feet and neither ever put down their contemporaries. Their work, totally theirs, speaks for itself through the ages.

Just my thoughts. Really dont expect anyone to understand or even agree. Just needed to get that off my chest once and for all.

What took you so long? LOL! I have been waiting and waiting for this post and it has finally come! LOL!
I hope all is well with you Jay. God bless.

[SoulChild]

whatcha mean what took him so long? He made sure we knew he was no longer a Cretu fan shorty after this thread was created!

@Nathan, Absolutley! I am also an Art of Noise fan....and when I ask people about Enigma, it seems that many people put those two together and say things like Enigma and Art of Noise are the way to go! Once I heard that the first time a couple of years ago, I immediately realized the comparison. Thanks for bringing that up Nathan!

And for the record, I am thoroughly enjoying my Platinum Collection..just downloaded it today :) The CD was not available in my area from some reason....

[Narnia]

So, I'm listening to ENIGMA 7LMF today while painting in the studio ... I'm sitting there at the easel, not really paying much attention to the music nor am I really thinking about the painting ... I'm in the groove 'the zone' and then suddenly I 'heard' or could make out the lyrics in Fata Morgana.

Of course we all know that Nanook sings 'Take me now' over and over ..... but I heard more after that!!

I heard ... 'Running outta time' ....

Have any of you Enigma junkies heard that yet!? *he-he*

:)

[Lion Spirit Walker]

:) I have had this CD on 'replay' constantly since approximately 5 PM CST. It's been playing for 7 hours now and I'm still enjoying it. The CD is just beginning again. This time through I'll listen for that and let you know if I catch it.

[Lion Spirit Walker]

I heard it. I always thought it was "In and out of time."
Can you possibly check EMB for lyrics???
I'll check around to see what I may be able to find.
In this regard I would think EMB would be more creditable.?.
p.s., Love the sync. :)

[Lion Spirit Walker]

After a little research [shhh. I even went to EMB.], when I found it written as anything other than 'Instrumental' it was "Running out of time." lol. Except one site where it was simply "All time."

[Mr B]

For me it's done with Enigma, it's dead after Jens Gad and Sandra left the building (I know why and how now since two years) and the stuff Jay mentioned. I don't care anymore. I do not listen to Enigma every day like i used to. In fact, every single time i read about Enigma here at MW or elsewhere on the web, it makes me feel i wanna throw up.

Also MW is not the good old EMB and what some call EMB is in fact EMF. But... it's not the same as it used to be and it will never be. MW is and never will be the former EMB and i'm not buying it when someone says that it was Enigma who brought us together in the first place. No...... it was us from the very first beginning.

Sure, the members are free to talk and post about almost everything they want here at MW but i have a feeling that some still want to create a second EMB which, again, MW is not. If peeps keep dwelling in the past and not move on i guess MW isn't able to grow either.

If it was depending on me i would love to see MW move on..... without dragging Enigma behind it.

Now, this is what i needed to vent in the open after a very, very long time and really get rid of these thoughts. I just needed to.

So.... you guys and ladies can carry on now.... Chat away i'd say. :)

[Narnia]

Also MW is not the good old EMB and what some call EMB is in fact EMF. But... it's not the same as it used to be and it will never be. MW is and never will be the former EMB and i'm not buying it when someone says that it was Enigma who brought us together in the first place. No...... it was us from the very first beginning.

You're right! The former EMB now EMF will never be the same and that is okay ... it has it's own direction and agenda now ... all things change and evolve in their own respect.

I believe our beloved MW is not the former EMB ... granted, many of us who are here came from there ... but as I mentioned in a Vocalize Yourself message a while ago ... 'We are more than Enigma fans ... we are people with questions and genuine interests'

My dear friend, I don't think any of us here want MW to be the former EMB ... we have moved on ... :)



Sure, the members are free to talk and post about almost everything they want here at MW but i have a feeling that some still want to create a second EMB which, again, MW is not. If peeps keep dwelling in the past and not move on i guess MW isn't able to grow either.

As you know, I came to the EMB in it's twilight and missed out on a lot of the highlights ... the great discussions about the lyrics and so forth ... so I never really had a chnace to experience the EMB in it's glory days.

I kept myself away from the EMB actually before I finally succumbed in becoming a member ... because I wanted Enigma's music to remain innocent, pure and fresh in my eyes, and not to be tainted by the news or other people's thoughts on it ... and since the EMB was laid to rest ... I have naturally fallen back into that practice ... so I am still intrigued by the direction Enigma will take.

Anyhoo, I feel that when Enigma is mention here in MW ... it is used as a reference point and in a completely different context ... I myself do not sense any clinging onto the past by members .... but perhaps I sense is ... another awakneing of sorts, a discovering more about the 'now' .... the language used here is not the same as the former EMB ....



Now, this is what i needed to vent in the open after a very, very long time and really get rid of these thoughts. I just needed to.

Well, I am glad that you did dearest!! :) :two hearts: