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Kiran
November 11th, 2011, 11:58 AM
As a Gemini, I am very aware of my duality. I am aware that while a being of Light, I also have my 'darker' sides. I do not refer to 'evil' or any of those connotations of darkness....just my more solemn, quieter times where I retreat and am happy in my own company. Many of here often say 'love and light'...what do you mean by light? Often times, when people talk about Light and Dark, there is an assumption that Light means good and Dark means bad.
Just interested in other's perspectives or views on this.

MystEerieUsOne
November 11th, 2011, 07:07 PM
Many, many thousands of years ago, the ancients' wide-screen TV and movies were the evening skies, and in all their star gazing they began to realize that everything out there is actually patterned, and even more astonishingly, (though otherwise obviously) that that very same patterning included everything, and everybody, right here on earth! Everything in the Universe is a consistent physics of reflective mathematical patterning!

Language was born of that patterning, as language is a lower form of mathematics (expression of energy), if one is moving toward reflective awareness, or Consciousness, and a higher form of mathematics (expression of energy) if moving away from Consciousness, into projection, aka "conventional" life (distraction). The patterning is still there, undaunted either way by what humans try to do with it!

Within that patterning, the system of reflection vs projection physics is rooted in opposing forces, which is why we are always motivated to move in the direction we haven't yet. The more we move away from something, the more it seems to come get us, trying to motivate us to turn around. As I mentioned in the Nag Hammadi thread, those opposing forces were represented in ancient languages as male and female, and the reason for this is because they were actually referring to the aggressive and passive nature of the Universe.

Light comes from the sun, and is far more aggressive than the more passive darkness, and so they realized light as masculine, or Yang. Along with that masculine light is, in multidimensional language, intelligence, thought, day, left brain... The more passive inverse of light, or darkness, is Yin, which includes the moon, intuition, feelings, night, right brain.

While there is so much more to this, and these, their accuracy is consistent because they parallel the passive aggressive inverses of Universal energies. So, while to the conventionally distracted (unconscious convention) all this may sound like nothing more than "psychobabble," it is actually very real Universal physics.

While darkness metaphorically suggests that one is "in the dark" about something, as in "not aware," it also refers to Yin's highly *Intuitive* nature, which survives at the pinnacle of Universal Truth way beyond the capacities of Yang (reason given in Nag Hammadi thread...Intuition being like one's "dna" that inherently *realizes* far more than mere language can express).

In conventional reasoning, darkness is sometimes used to refer to someone who is "down" or depressed because, though those referrers may not realize where they are getting that from, it suggests that if the person who is "down" or depressed had some particular awareness about something, that they would "lighten" up! :)

BlueStar
November 11th, 2011, 09:03 PM
Great idea for a thread Lorri. I'll come back to this when I have a little more energy and can put my thoughts into coherent words :)

Rana
November 12th, 2011, 08:29 AM
for me individually. when i am feeling in the light i feel i am out of the darkness the self that is over shadowed ( in the darkness) by ego and personality . great thread.

Narnia
November 12th, 2011, 08:44 PM
Agreed ... an excellent topic indeed!

I believe we are all beings of Light/Energy, some shining more brightly and longer than others ... when I use Light in 'Love and Light' ... I use it in the way I see Light ... Light to me is the revealer of all Truths, Light gives guidance, Light gives courage, Light allows for growth, Light is warming, Light is seeing Light is positive etc ... and like you, Lorri, I tend to see my own 'dark' personal side as a time to retreat into my state of being and enjoy my True-Self ... a time of being inward, quiet and reflective.

:)

BlueStar
November 13th, 2011, 02:19 PM
Hmm...

The way I currently see this is...

All is consciousness -- or awareness, which is probably a better term. All-pervasive, unconditioned awareness. The light of awareness takes form and animates the physical, subtle (mind & psyche) and causal (soul) bodies. Consciousness arises, an ego 'identity' is the byproduct.

Just as water flowing down a mountain creates grooves and channels, the light of awareness flowing through the bodies creates mental grooves and formations. In sanskrit these are called these vasanas, or mental tendencies (I looked it up for clarity and other definitions include: unconscious propensities, disposition, habit energy, thought, habit formation, impression, imprint, inclination, inherent tendency, etc). We might call it basic conditioning. Outside of the 'base light' of awareness, the animating spark, people's personalities and the structure of their minds and psyche are largely just vasanas and conditioning. These mental formations obstruct the light of consciousness/awareness as it flows, much the same way as clouds obstruct the sunlight.

To use the cinema allegory -- what we are is the light that shines (pure awareness), while the reel of film (our vasanas, conditioning, habits of thought, beliefs, etc) obstructs the light, projecting shapes, forms and activity upon the screen -- essentially creating the 'person' we take ourselves to be and the world around us.

So I guess, the light is what we are at our deepest level. The dark is just obstructions of mind and consciousness -- it doesn't have any reality/life of its own, for without the animating spark of awareness shining on it, it couldn't exist. The only thing that's 'real' in the cinema projection is the light, the rest is just an illusion created by the 'dark' obstructing the light and casting images upon the screen.

Kiran
November 13th, 2011, 05:48 PM
Light comes from the sun, and is far more aggressive than the more passive darkness, and so they realized light as masculine, or Yang. Along with that masculine light is, in multidimensional language, intelligence, thought, day, left brain... The more passive inverse of light, or darkness, is Yin, which includes the moon, intuition, feelings, night, right brain.

While there is so much more to this, and these, their accuracy is consistent because they parallel the passive aggressive inverses of Universal energies. So, while to the conventionally distracted (unconscious convention), all this may sound like nothing more than "psychobabble," it is actually very real Universal physics.

While darkness metaphorically suggests that one is "in the dark" about something, as in "not aware," it also refers to Yin's highly *Intuitive* nature, which survives at the pinnacle of Universal Truth way beyond the capacities of Yang (reason given in Nag Hammadi thread...Intuition being like one's "dna" that inherently *realizes* far more than mere language can express).

In conventional reasoning, darkness is sometimes used to refer to someone who is "down" or depressed because, though those referrers may not realize where they are getting that from, it suggests that if the person who is "down" or depressed had some particular awareness about something, that they would "lighten" up! :)

Thank you for your viewpoint myst...and very concisely put. As you have stated clearly here, there are many definitions of light and dark depending on the perspective we come from. :)

Kiran
November 13th, 2011, 05:57 PM
for me individually. when i am feeling in the light i feel i am out of the darkness the self that is over shadowed ( in the darkness) by ego and personality . great thread.
Another interesting perspective Rana. Thanks for sharing dearest :)

Kiran
November 13th, 2011, 06:12 PM
Agreed ... an excellent topic indeed!

I believe we are all beings of Light/Energy, some shining more brightly and longer than others ... when I use Light in 'Love and Light' ... I use it in the way I see Light ... Light to me is the revealer of all Truths, Light gives guidance, Light gives courage, Light allows for growth, Light is warming, Light is seeing Light is positive etc ... and like you, Lorri, I tend to see my own 'dark' personal side as a time to retreat into my state of being and enjoy my True-Self ... a time of being inward, quiet and reflective.

:)

So of Light is all this Polly, then what is darkness? Just checking on your view of this :) Thank you for sharing :)

Kiran
November 13th, 2011, 06:38 PM
To use the cinema allegory -- what we are is the light that shines (pure awareness), while the reel of film (our vasanas, conditioning, habits of thought, beliefs, etc) obstructs the light, projecting shapes, forms and activity upon the screen -- essentially creating the 'person' we take ourselves to be and the world around us.

So I guess, the light is what we are at our deepest level. The dark is just obstructions of mind and consciousness -- it doesn't have any reality/life of its own, for without the animating spark of awareness shining on it, it couldn't exist. The only thing that's 'real' in the cinema projection is the light, the rest is just an illusion created by the 'dark' obstructing the light and casting images upon the screen.

Thanks for your input Rory....well put dearest.

Kiran
November 13th, 2011, 06:49 PM
It's interesting to note that most of the replies here associate 'dark' with more negative associations...like baser emotions etc. My own personal view is that if the Universe is balanced and perfect and as such comprises of both light and dark...then would it not also stand that we are also made up of both light and dark? Nature/Universe is all about balance - Yin/Yang; male/female; light/dark; order/chaos. To me, in order to be balanced, we also have to learn to accept our darker or shadow sides. To not do this would be to go against nature.
Darker sides do not have to be negative at all. While I have areas that need attention and I am working on those, many of them might be seen as 'Light' areas. Most here know me to be Love, but this when out of balance is still love. this is what is perceived to be Light. And yet this, out of balance can lead to negative influences....stalking, un real expectations etc....just for example. Does this mean that love can also be dark? A negative emotion? When anyone into this way of life sees it as a Light in their lives?
I am just trying to show it is about perceptions.
My own view of dark....while it can have negative connotations, for me, its my time to me. To retreat, to spend time musing, mulling through things, having alone time. I never see this as a negative, in fact to me this is extremely healthy as I allow time to assimilate information and ideas that have come to me from outside myself...allowing me time to decide what is right. If I go running into everything without taking time to weigh things up, even if in my head I think its from a place of light, is it really?
Just musing here......

BlueStar
November 13th, 2011, 08:48 PM
Very good point Lorri and it makes for a highly thought-provoking discussion :)

Good question - is it important to accept our 'darker' side?

I suppose it depends on what we mean by our darker side? Negative thoughts and emotions, dark impulses?

My understanding of this changes and evolves all the time and contradictions can be rife (but it's all a paradox anyway). Currently my feeling is that the darker stuff - anger, hate, jealousy, fear, greed, etc, comes not from our true nature, but from misidentification; believing ourselves to be what we are not - ie, separate, limited, body-minds. It's contrary to our true nature, which is why it always feels bad and why, when we're deeply centred in our being, it's almost impossible to feel those things. I guess it is important to accept this stuff when it comes up because what we judge we strengthen and what we resist persists. But I'm not sure it makes sense trying to balance this 'dark side' with our 'light side'...that would mean aiming to be loving sometimes and hateful at other times, peaceful some of the time and violent the rest of the time. I don't know. Accepting the darker stuff is essential, but I believe indulging it just feeds the ego and keeps us disconnected and obstructed from the truth of what we are.

From my experience, when we're centred in the vast expanse of stillness/being/awareness at the core of our being, everything is balanced. Dark and light kind of merge into each other and there's a 'zero point', perfect unity, balance, harmony, almost a nothingness and yet filled with everything.

So maybe the notion of light and dark only applies to this illusory world of maya...and in the deeper reality don't even exist at all? Maybe it's not so much a matter of balancing them, but transcending them?

Kiran
November 14th, 2011, 08:54 AM
Good point Rory! But then is darkness not being equated with Ego here honey?

What I am on about is the sides of me, aspects of me that I would not necessarily feel comfortable others knowing....for either privacy or otherwise. Ok...I'll give an example of something I mean. Mostly I am upbeat and loving and chatty. Then there are other times I like my quiet and solitude to the point of being precious about it. I get a little peeved if someone arrives and I have been waiting to have this time alone....this is a silly example but I hope you get what I mean.

Ok try this again....some adults would have very explicit tastes say sexually....does this make them wrong or bad? Or is this a darker side of themselves they have embraced and accepted? And as long as this is consensual and safe of course!

This is what I tried to say earlier about connotations of negativity with our darker sides. I think this is where we have to draw a distinction between what is Ego/negative and what are just darker aspects of ourselves.

MystEerieUsOne
November 14th, 2011, 03:26 PM
There is an expression that goes... "If you have to ask, you already have your answer," and that particularly pertains to when someone is almost, though perhaps un-aware-ingly, asking for permission, from society, friends, family, associates, etc..., to do something that is really none of their business anyway!

In other words, following one's heart in one's most private-of-all life, as long as no one else is being harmed or adversely affected/effected in any way, is the more mature way to go, than waiting for society or those close to oneself to give their approval first. Needing approval suggests a parent-child dynamic, including reflectively within the seeker, rather than a balanced ego response. If one is feeling any sort of distress over a personal decision, that is "ego dystonia," or the angst of being afraid of one's truest self.

Society doesn't always know what is "wrong or bad" or moral, etc. Look how unconscious the collective world is, with its misguided rules by the millions worldwide wrapped around that unconsciousness! If billions of people were following their truest heart, as opposed to doing what everybody else is doing just because everybody else is doing it, the world of humankind would be a world of kind humans! :ohyea:

BlueStar
November 14th, 2011, 07:23 PM
Good point Rory! But then is darkness not being equated with Ego here honey?

What I am on about is the sides of me, aspects of me that I would not necessarily feel comfortable others knowing....for either privacy or otherwise. Ok...I'll give an example of something I mean. Mostly I am upbeat and loving and chatty. Then there are other times I like my quiet and solitude to the point of being precious about it. I get a little peeved if someone arrives and I have been waiting to have this time alone....this is a silly example but I hope you get what I mean.

Ok try this again....some adults would have very explicit tastes say sexually....does this make them wrong or bad? Or is this a darker side of themselves they have embraced and accepted? And as long as this is consensual and safe of course!

This is what I tried to say earlier about connotations of negativity with our darker sides. I think this is where we have to draw a distinction between what is Ego/negative and what are just darker aspects of ourselves.

Ah, OK, it all depends on how you define your 'darker side' or aspects. We've probably been thinking about different things entirely (I do love discussions like this though! It really makes you to dig deeper and get clear on things :)) Personally, I wouldn't consider the examples you gave to necessarily be 'dark'. Dark to me implies violence in word or action; that which inflicts suffering on oneself or others.

When it comes to frustration, impatience, even anger and sexual fetishes, I would tend to see them simply as aspects of consciousness and the vasanas in full play -- habits and tendencies created by thought and experience. If we have the ability to be conscious and just witness them arising in ourselves we're less likely to be drawn in and identified with them and less likely to create suffering. I don't really think of these as being 'dark' or 'darker aspects'. That's a judgement made by the mind and the mind is always limited in its knowledge and scope.

As Myst says, society doesn't always (or sometimes ever) know what's truly 'good or bad' and the same is true for us on an individual level. It's just the mind judging the mind, like a dog chasing its tail. I also agree that the key is to follow one's heart...that which brings us joy or peace is the best benchmark for what we might consider 'positive' or good' and that which brings us or other people discomfort and physical or emotional suffering is 'bad'. It's like our emotions are a GPS system to keep us on track when it comes to our actions.

Something that Nisargadatta said has really stuck with me: don't see the content of your consciousness as being 'you'. You're above and beyond it, the changeless awareness in which the clouds of thoughts, beliefs, emotions and impulses arise and subside. They're not personal, they're just mental strata. So if I'm feeling impatient, angry and frustrated or whatever, I don't see these as darker aspects of myself; they're just events happening in myself and they will pass as quickly as they arose.

My brain is fuzzy today, I hope that makes some kind of sense (it kind of does in my head - I think! LOL)

Love the discussion and I love it when we dig deep :D

Lion Spirit Walker
November 14th, 2011, 08:13 PM
We are made up of dark matter and light energy...

Kiran
November 15th, 2011, 08:51 AM
There is an expression that goes... "If you have to ask, you already have your answer," and that particularly pertains to when someone is almost, though perhaps un-aware-ingly, asking for permission, from society, friends, family, associates, etc..., to do something that is really none of their business anyway!

In other words, following one's heart in one's most private-of-all life, as long as no one else is being harmed or adversely affected/effected in any way, is the more mature way to go, than waiting for society or those close to oneself to give their approval first. Needing approval suggests a parent-child dynamic, including reflectively within the seeker, rather than a balanced ego response. If one is feeling any sort of distress over a personal decision, that is "ego dystonia," or the angst of being afraid of one's truest self.

Society doesn't always know what is "wrong or bad" or moral, etc. Look how unconscious the collective world is, with its misguided rules by the millions worldwide wrapped around that unconsciousness! If billions of people were following their truest heart, as opposed to doing what everybody else is doing just because everybody else is doing it, the world of humankind would be a world of kind humans! :ohyea:

Thank you once again dearest for your perspective :) Much appreciated. It is not what others outside think of us, more about what we think of ourselves....this is where I have been going with this. People often associate our 'darker' selves with negative things and this is not always the case. Therefore does human nature always take the 'darker' side to mean bad or evil or negative? Thanks dearest :)

Kiran
November 15th, 2011, 08:59 AM
Ah, OK, it all depends on how you define your 'darker side' or aspects. We've probably been thinking about different things entirely (I do love discussions like this though! It really makes you to dig deeper and get clear on things :)) Personally, I wouldn't consider the examples you gave to necessarily be 'dark'. Dark to me implies violence in word or action; that which inflicts suffering on oneself or others.

When it comes to frustration, impatience, even anger and sexual fetishes, I would tend to see them simply as aspects of consciousness and the vasanas in full play -- habits and tendencies created by thought and experience. If we have the ability to be conscious and just witness them arising in ourselves we're less likely to be drawn in and identified with them and less likely to create suffering. I don't really think of these as being 'dark' or 'darker aspects'. That's a judgement made by the mind and the mind is always limited in its knowledge and scope.

As Myst says, society doesn't always (or sometimes ever) know what's truly 'good or bad' and the same is true for us on an individual level. It's just the mind judging the mind, like a dog chasing its tail. I also agree that the key is to follow one's heart...that which brings us joy or peace is the best benchmark for what we might consider 'positive' or good' and that which brings us or other people discomfort and physical or emotional suffering is 'bad'. It's like our emotions are a GPS system to keep us on track when it comes to our actions.

My brain is fuzzy today, I hope that makes some kind of sense (it kind of does in my head - I think! LOL)

Love the discussion and I love it when we dig deep :D

Yes honey...makes perfect sense. Apologies about the sexual behaviour example...I really couldn't think of anything else that would show what I was getting at. Perceptions. Yes Evil/negative/wrong behaviour is one thing.....does this make them dark? In the eyes of another, say in religioius wars...both sides see themselves as being of Light, in the right.....but their behaviour is perceived as bad (as war always should be seen). Thanks for your response Rory :)

Kiran
November 15th, 2011, 09:00 AM
We are made up of dark matter and light energy...
Both equal :) Perfect dearest :)

Rana
November 15th, 2011, 12:30 PM
i love the old mythical stories where light fought dark for the souls of man ..the duality .the pull . being swirled into the dark abyss and to pop out on the other side of the milky way somwhere ... sorry i have just had a wonderful time reading all this amazing wisdom and it conjured the most fantastic imagery in me .. xx

BlueStar
November 15th, 2011, 03:16 PM
Yes honey...makes perfect sense. Apologies about the sexual behaviour example...I really couldn't think of anything else that would show what I was getting at. Perceptions. Yes Evil/negative/wrong behaviour is one thing.....does this make them dark? In the eyes of another, say in religioius wars...both sides see themselves as being of Light, in the right.....but their behaviour is perceived as bad (as war always should be seen). Thanks for your response Rory :)

Don't apologise, I totally get what you mean :) Yup, our perspective on 'dark' and 'light' is all quite relative isn't it, as you pointed out in the example of religious wars.

Genesis
July 20th, 2012, 05:33 AM
As a Taurus Sun afflicted with a Scorpio Moon, (for anyone in tune with astrology, both these signs are exact opposite on the zodiac), I can certainly say I know how it is to have such a duality.
I see myself as a genuine person of light, but I have such a dark destructive side, it's scary. Recently, its been manifesting and what i can and am capable of doing sometimes scares me to pieces. But this is also something I've come to terms with - the more we understand about ourselves, the more we are armed to fight it.
I'm a warrior of life, and as warriors, we choose what we fight for. In this case, its balance.
All life is a choice. We find ways to co-exist with our demons and angels, or however you choose to perceive light and dark.

SoulChild
August 14th, 2012, 03:04 PM
We are made up of dark matter and light energy...


This is a great thread! Everyone's post is amazing! Very intelligent! Michael, your post, in the least amount of words, is so powerful. And I agree! DARK Matters! ;-)